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Eloise Tomkins: Hello and welcome back to another episode of the rich woman rising. Podcast I'm your host, Eloise Tompkins, and I'm a money coach and psychologist for women in business who are wanting to make more money and shift their relationship with wealth through the nervous system and subconscious. And today I am so excited. I say this every single time that I have a guest I really am. I really love talking to people.
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Eloise Tomkins: and I am excited to bring you, Brooke Mccarthy, who is a veteran business coach and trainer for values, based business owners who want to make boldness their business strategy through. And she does this through coaching courses and masterminds. And one of the reasons that I reached out to Brooke is because I love. And we're talking about this just off air that we're both a little unhinged in.
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Eloise Tomkins: Oh.
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Eloise Tomkins: in our content. Sorry! I'm making her laugh before I'm bringing her on. But I love that. We can have these conversations, and we need more women to be more unhinged, you know. Maybe that's not even the right word. But, Brooke, I'm so excited that you're here. Thank you so much for joining me.
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Brook McCarthy: I'm sure we're gonna have a great conversation.
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Eloise Tomkins: Yeah, I hope. So I hope. So that's gonna be the title of the podcast. I'm here with Brooke, mccarthy.
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Eloise Tomkins: podcast. Name in and of itself. Maybe I should rebrand.
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Brook McCarthy: Yeah. Well, I mean, it doesn't take much for women to get branded as unhinged right like.
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Eloise Tomkins: Really doesn't. And you know, as I was speaking actually, and as I was saying, the like word unhinged, that there was also that part of me. That was just kind of like, Wow, yeah, it really doesn't take much for women to be called unhinged. And the fact is, we're just
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Eloise Tomkins: speaking about what's important to us and what we believe, and sometimes that brings
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Eloise Tomkins: what's the word like controversy or other people get triggered. And you know we're talking about this off air, how you don't feel that it's your responsibility to manage other people's triggers, and I agree with that absolutely. I think we can be mindful.
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Eloise Tomkins: But tell us a little bit about you, because I feel like I could go down this rabbit hole. But tell us a little bit about you, and.
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Brook McCarthy: Where should I start? I guess. Like, if we're talking about money, why don't we start with pocket money? So I was the eldest of 4 children.
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Brook McCarthy: and there wasn't a lot of money. We weren't poor. We were middle class, but Mum was juggling, you know, 4 kids and bills on my dad's salary alone, and so there wasn't any pocket money to be frank.
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Brook McCarthy: and when you're a kid you want Lilly's, and you want, you know, some freedom. You want some to have a dollar or 2 to actually make some decisions with. So the Babysitter's club was also in vogue. I don't know whether you were a fan. Did you ever.
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Eloise Tomkins: Oh, my gosh! Was IA fan? Yes.
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Brook McCarthy: Favorite Babysitter.
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Eloise Tomkins: Oh, it varied like I think I related to Dawn, because, like just so, Goody Goody I think.
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Brook McCarthy: Just the hippie from California, right.
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Eloise Tomkins: Yeah, she was. Yeah, yeah, that's right. And I always wanted to be Stacy, though.
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Brook McCarthy: Stacy was the smart one. I can't.
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Eloise Tomkins: No, she was like the popular one, like the really cool.
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Brook McCarthy: Here we go!
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Eloise Tomkins: Popular, one.
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Brook McCarthy: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
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Eloise Tomkins: I think Marianne was the smart.
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Brook McCarthy: Yeah, she was the sensible one. That kind of made the whole thing happen. Right? Yeah. So, so inspired by the Babysitter's club, I think I would have aspired to be Dawn for sure. And Stacy probably, but I was probably more the sensible one.
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Brook McCarthy: because I roped in a couple of friends that lived in the street, and we started. You know our own version of the Babysitter's Club, and I was, you know, the treasurer
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Brook McCarthy: and the secretary and I took the majority of the work.
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Eloise Tomkins: Very Marianne of you.
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Brook McCarthy: Marianne, a very Marianne of me, and I used to. We used to just literally walk down the street, knocking on doors around the neighborhood going. Hi, where kids from, you know, we tell about road. Do you have any jobs that need doing? We can, you know, do we can pull weeds we can vacuum. We can mind your child. We can read to your child like
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Brook McCarthy: whatever and so that was like my early experience of money. And I. It was such a positive experience like it was so
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Brook McCarthy: fun, and you know, amazing to have the power and the choice, you know. And and so you know that I kind of think of every now and then quite, quite fondly.
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Brook McCarthy: But I was 28 when I started my business. I'm 45 now I thought I was too young. 2829 I was. I was pretty certain I was too young to start a business, but
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Brook McCarthy: circumstances were that you know I kind of was managed out of a job, and it felt like
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Brook McCarthy: this was the best next step. It was certainly, you know, not something that I kind of planned for. I didn't have a backup plan. I didn't have, you know, savings. I hadn't created a side gig while I was working that would have been very sensible. But you know I was just kind of jump in the deep end. I think I'll just go ahead and do this.
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Brook McCarthy: And yeah, that was 17 years ago.
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Eloise Tomkins: I love that. And it's interesting like how those early influencers can kind of, because, like what I hear from childhood was, I didn't have it. I didn't. We didn't have enough money. We didn't have like surplus money, and so the way that I got surplus was to put myself out there, and through that I learned that I
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Eloise Tomkins: had the ability to create my own money. I didn't wait for someone, and as I was listening to you I was thinking about my experiences because I saw money in a similar way in terms of power, but I saw other people have the power, not me.
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Brook McCarthy: Hmm.
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Eloise Tomkins: And I was like, Oh, that's really cool like that's really interesting. How I guess almost our perception of
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Eloise Tomkins: money and and our experiences influence. How we then make decisions.
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Brook McCarthy: 100%. And you know, power is the thing like, I think money is power. And I think that's why a lot of people find it so rattling and disconcerting on their nervous system.
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Brook McCarthy: Because they don't really trust themselves with power.
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Brook McCarthy: So, and they've had a negative experience like what I saw a lot of, especially in the early years of my business. I had quite a few clients who were kind of alternative hippie well-being businesses, and they could be absolute assholes when it came to money.
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Brook McCarthy: and I just like I used to find it confounding. I was like, I don't get it like you're a I feel like I know who you are. I feel like you're a good, genuine, you know, person, whatever that means. But when it comes to money you can be an absolute asshole, and I think, upon reflection, I might be wrong. My theory is that these people oftentimes had a very, you know, corrupted view of money and power. They'd been the victim
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Brook McCarthy: of a crappy, you know, relationship where somebody had kind of lauded it over them with money. And so they'd thought, well, that's how it has to be done. This is how one acts with money. If if you want to be, you know, making money, earning money, whatever you're going to have to be a bit of an asshole, you're going to have to, you know, because it's every person for themselves. Kind of thing.
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Eloise Tomkins: Yeah. And it's so interesting like to reflect on because it, you know.
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Eloise Tomkins: part of it is money amplifies who you already are.
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Eloise Tomkins: And
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Eloise Tomkins: when you're saying that, like, you know, it's kind of this idea of. Well, I thought I knew who they were. I thought I knew who these people were, and then I saw them get more money, and
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Eloise Tomkins: it's almost like you're saying they kind of change. But I wonder if they actually changed, or whether that was kind of
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Eloise Tomkins: a part of them, they, but it just wasn't as visible.
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Eloise Tomkins: Or maybe you weren't as privy to something.
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Brook McCarthy: Who knows? I mean, I think most of us right. We don't know what we're doing. We're feeling our way through life. We're making it up as we go along, and we we adopt behaviors and we adopt beliefs. And we adopt, you know, things that we see other people saying and doing.
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Brook McCarthy: And we think, well, this is how it's done, and it is a privilege to get to a certain point in your life which lots of people never get to and recognise. You know what I can actually choose
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Brook McCarthy: what I believe, and I can choose what I think.
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Brook McCarthy: you know, and I don't have to continue along this trajectory. What I have believed until now to be truth with a capital T is actually just
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Brook McCarthy: an opinion or an attitude or a belief that's been introduced, you know, through my socialization.
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Brook McCarthy: through my culture, I can rewire that I can rework that, and that, I find is massively liberating, and it can also be massively discombobulating as well to get to that point. Because, you know, we like certainty, humans love certainty. We thrive with certainty and to realize that actually everything that you thought was true is not true is a very.
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Brook McCarthy: you know, discombobulating experience that you know. A lot of people get stuck there, and then they retreat back to what's familiar.
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Eloise Tomkins: Are you going to.
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Brook McCarthy: Amelia is no longer serving them. Yeah.
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Brook McCarthy: Yeah. Well, because you're isolating yourself as well if you're going against what your friends and family believe.
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Brook McCarthy: And if you're changing and evolving, there's going to be friends and family people that are close to you who don't like that, you know, and they don't want that. And you changing is causing, you know, a mirror to be put up to their own behavior.
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Eloise Tomkins: Oh!
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Brook McCarthy: And inadvertently you might have the best of intentions, you might be, you know, doing it or doing it well, not being an asshole and shoving it down other people's throats. But still it's challenging. And still they're going to kind of push back and want you to stay exactly as you are kind of like those friends that you know. They've got this fixed idea of who you were in 1996. And it's not going to evolve beyond that.
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Eloise Tomkins: Is that what happened to you like is like cause. Obviously you've been in business for quite some time now. And is that like, how did that play out for you? Because obviously, you start a business, and there's hard work and a lot of well, I don't know about you, but like a lot of time, energy, and learning, a new skill set.
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Brook McCarthy: Yeah.
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Eloise Tomkins: Addition to the skills that you already bring to the table.
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Brook McCarthy: Yep.
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Eloise Tomkins: But then, as you, as you started to make money.
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Eloise Tomkins: How did how did that shift with those relationships around.
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Brook McCarthy: Yeah, yeah, I mean, I. And invariably you're gonna lose people.
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Brook McCarthy: and it's not going to be their fault. And it's not going to be your fault.
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Brook McCarthy: It's just how life works right. And I can be like, I'm terrible at saying goodbye. I was a tour leader for a couple of years, and if I like somebody I really like them, you know, like I can be an absolute wet blanket with letting people go or letting things finish, you know, like, I've got a strong, nostalgic, sentimental, emotional streak.
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Brook McCarthy: But you know, that's life. You're going to have people that you absolutely adore and that are really relevant to a period. And then
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Brook McCarthy: time changes. You know, things evolve and they're not there anymore. And so you know, there was, there's been multiple multiple people that have
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Brook McCarthy: you know, moved through my business or moved through my life as well. And you know there were clients, for example, that I adored, and that were my very 1st clients that I charged $60 an hour to.
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Brook McCarthy: and you know everybody else was $70 an hour, $80 an hour, $90 an hour, $100 an hour. Blah blah!
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Brook McCarthy: And eventually, you know, you have to say you have to part ways with that person because they're not going to pay more, and they've made that clear.
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Brook McCarthy: So what are you going to do like? You're going to continue to charge far less than you're charging everybody else because of sentimental reasons.
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Eloise Tomkins: I mean you could. But how did you not like? How did you? Because, like this is the stuff like what just there is.
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Brook McCarthy: Yeah.
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Eloise Tomkins: Gold, because I see this so often.
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Brook McCarthy: Hmm.
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Eloise Tomkins: Oh, women don't are scared to lose their community. They're scared that if they
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Eloise Tomkins: increase their rates, or if they change too much they're gonna lose the community that they've built. And they're not gonna find another community because they're relatable to the current community.
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Brook McCarthy: Yeah.
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Eloise Tomkins: Yeah.
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Brook McCarthy: Well, look, I think it depends on the person's response to you. So, for example, you know, I have people in my community who don't pay. Who aren't, you know, paying clients and customers? Perhaps if I sell something that's cheap they will participate in that
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Brook McCarthy: but they're wishing me well. They're not in my inbox, you know, telling me off for having the temerity to charge what I charge, you know. Like they're not. They're not people that are kind of sucking my life force or resenting me, or bitching behind my back. Having said that, I'd have no idea if they were like I'm elsewhere. I'm occupied doing more interesting things than you know.
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Brook McCarthy: finding people bitching behind my back. That's deeply disinteresting, uninteresting to me. But the other thing, too, is that your clients will see you evolve. And I had one client, I remember years ago who joined my program. She said. I was on your interest list. I kept seeing the price rise.
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Brook McCarthy: and I'm like, Well, God, I've got to join, because I always intend to join. I keep postponing it, but you keep putting the price up.
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Brook McCarthy: and hey, if you're listening, the price is not going down, the price is going up, and the pricing coming back down again. So like the sooner you buy the better.
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Brook McCarthy: you know. So she jumped in and she joined my program.
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Brook McCarthy: So you know your best. Let me start again. It's not your best clients, but
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Brook McCarthy: some of your clients will evolve with you, and you, putting your price up is is actually valuable and useful and helpful to them because you're demonstrating
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Brook McCarthy: your evolution. You know you're demonstrating the behavior that oftentimes they want to model because I'm a business coach. My clients are business owners. They're soloists. They're, you know, service professionals, and a lot of what a lot of reasons why people come to me like one of the trigger events that people reach out to me is because they want to raise their price. They know they have to raise their price. It's been in the agenda for some time, but they're scared to raise their price for the reasons you just stated. They don't want to lose their clients.
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Brook McCarthy: They don't want to isolate their community. They don't want people to think that they're greedy, or, you know, too big, you know, too big for their boots, or whatever you know, whatever stories we tell ourselves. So. You know, I think it's really a useful thing to recognize that your clients want to see you transforming.
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Brook McCarthy: You know there's a there's a Yoga studio down the road from where I live, and they were a client of mine about 15 years ago. They have the same signage, they have the same untouched out of date website. They have, like they are stuck in a time, you know, capsule
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Brook McCarthy: that is not inspiring, you know. I want to be embarrassed
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Brook McCarthy: by the marketing I was putting out a year ago.
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Brook McCarthy: I do. I want to be in back like I look at my work a year ago, and I think shit. That's you know.
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Eloise Tomkins: So I'm so. I love this and what I'm so curious like as you've been speaking like I I'm loving it, and what I can't help but think is, how do you?
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Eloise Tomkins: How do you actually do this when you have your you know
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Eloise Tomkins: part of your body going? I don't know.
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Eloise Tomkins: Because it's it's like all great in theory. A lot of time when we say, Okay, raise your rates. And people know people like women are not stupid. They know. Yeah, they know they're not doing it. And they know that. You know, they can like.
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Brook McCarthy: Well, I think, yeah, I yeah, I think I understand the intention. Behind your question. There is a a few different things. Number one is the the actual action, the taking of the action. And that doesn't have to be from, you know, $2, 50 to $60. It doesn't have to be one giant leap, although it can be like I went from 540 to 2,500 in one pay increase
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Brook McCarthy: but whatever that stretch is, it has to be some stretch, and it's some action you're taking.
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Brook McCarthy: And then it's the actual bedding down. That is the really useful part, because I think a lot of us. You know, we do brave, bold things. We put ourselves out of our comfort zone. We have big experiences where our nervous system feels a bit rattled.
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Brook McCarthy: and we don't actually take the time to kind of
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Brook McCarthy: better into our bones. You know, we're rushing into the next thing. And this is where the business owner and the business becomes really destabilized because the business owners, you know, you can kind of feel their energy. It feels frenetic, and it feels like.
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Eloise Tomkins: Is that what that energy feels like?
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Eloise Tomkins: Say again, is that what your energy feels like for an etiquette ungrounded when you do that.
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Brook McCarthy: Initially. Yeah, for sure, like, not not so much nowadays. But I remember one experience like, I think this will help illustrate my point. There was a guy who paid me in cash long after.
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Eloise Tomkins: Fresh.
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Brook McCarthy: An actual cat.
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Eloise Tomkins: Geez! Oh, my!
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Brook McCarthy: Long after. That was a thing
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Brook McCarthy: long after that was a thing. But anyway, he was an older guy, and I met him face to face, and he paid me the deposit, which was $900. So he pulled out, you know, fifties, 18 fifties from his back pocket, and I remember at the time thinking, this is a great opportunity.
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Brook McCarthy: Yeah. So because it was weird, right? And you don't actually often have that experience of somebody handing you cash.
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Eloise Tomkins: Hmm.
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Brook McCarthy: So I really made a point. As he counted 5,100 100. 5,200. I made a point of like sinking into my heels.
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Brook McCarthy: and kind of taking deep breaths, and just kind of being in the moment like really kind of bringing whatever weird mental energy there was back into my body.
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Eloise Tomkins: I love that. And that's such a great yeah illustration. Because, you know, it's 1 of those things like when I like, I talk about nervous system regulation a lot. And what I hear from that, Brooke, is that it's not about being calm as a cucumber and just raising your prices. And, you know, going to be happy, happy days. Yeah, it's about even in that moment of discomfort, even in that.
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Eloise Tomkins: you know, uncertainty of. Oh, this feels a little, a little uncomfortable, a little bit weird to be receiving $900 in cash, $1850 notes.
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Eloise Tomkins: But what I can do in this moment is put my heels into the ground, really sink into the earth and take some deep breaths, and
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Eloise Tomkins: I love that so much because
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Eloise Tomkins: I think so often we can think well, raising your prices should just feel easy making that hard business decision to say goodbye to those clients that you've loved working with and been working with for a long time. They were the foundations of your business.
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Brook McCarthy: Yeah.
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Eloise Tomkins: To say goodbye to them. I love that.
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Brook McCarthy: Yeah. So like, I think we all rush into this. You know, we rush through this stuff without slowing down and recognizing. So a lot of the work that I might do with a client
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Brook McCarthy: will involve going. Hey? Just a second. Let's take a moment
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Brook McCarthy: to recognize. I was having a coaching conversation with a client. I think it was last week, and she said something like, Oh, we got that! We got that agreement, I said, oh, how much, was it? She said. Oh.
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Brook McCarthy: 100 K. Or 90 KI can't remember.
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Brook McCarthy: And I'm like, Okay, can we just take a moment to acknowledge where you're at.
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Brook McCarthy: you know, because you just you can't actually remember if it's 90 K or a hundred K in one instance from one like.
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Brook McCarthy: can we just take a moment, because, you know.
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Eloise Tomkins: The tenant.
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Brook McCarthy: Years to go. Next thing. Next thing. Next thing, next thing. And this is where you know things get a bit kind of weird and whacked.
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Eloise Tomkins: That the other day with it, like someone I was like. So how much do you charge for? I don't know whatever it was that they were charging. They were like I don't know. Hang on a minute. Let me pull up my whatever web spreadsheet or whatever, and I was just sitting there thinking, how do you not know
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Eloise Tomkins: how much you charge like that should be something you should just be able to whip out? I mean I, you know sometimes if I've changed my prices, and it's literally like a couple of days that I've changed. I'm like, oh, what did I? No, no, I'm good. But this was, and I was like, Oh, my God!
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Eloise Tomkins: And I'm curious cause like how
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Eloise Tomkins: what I'm super curious about, because I see this difference between women who do go on to create a
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Eloise Tomkins: well-rounded nervous system, regulated nervous system when it comes to money versus others who kind of stay in this state of dysregulation, and I'm super curious how you
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Eloise Tomkins: have been able to stretch your own nervous system like was that something that was just built in for you, or did you have to kind of stretch your own capacity? And how did you do that?
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Brook McCarthy: Oh, let me count the ways. How long do we have? This could be conversation.
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Brook McCarthy: I was lucky enough to fall into meditation at a fairly young age. I did a religious studies degree at Sydney University because I wanted to know the meaning of life as you do when you're 17 years old, and it sounds naive, but I actually thought I would learn that. And when it was clear that this was, you know, theory and history and culture, and it wasn't
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Brook McCarthy: mystical practice.
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Brook McCarthy: I went looking.
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Eloise Tomkins: Name.
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Brook McCarthy: Yeah, I went looking, and I found a you know, a sign for premeditation classes, and I accidentally joined a cult. And a year later, after doing meditation with, you know, one of the monks in groups in Sydney, uni. I was given the class. He was relocated, and he said, Here you go. It's your class. And he handed me a book, staples along the edge
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Brook McCarthy: how to teach meditation classes, and he's like, There you go, like
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Brook McCarthy: good luck. And so I'm 18. And I'm teaching meditation. So that was a really really useful experience in retrospect for a multitude of reasons. But you know, it introduced this idea to me that there is a gap between your response.
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Brook McCarthy: You know
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Brook McCarthy: your kind of immediate response, and how you respond externally, and that you know that that gap between the inhale, the exhale, that gap between.
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Brook McCarthy: Shit. My, you know, I'm I'm having an emotional, triggered, reactive response to something. And okay. I get to choose. Now
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Brook McCarthy: what happens next? I get to choose whether you know how I'm going to respond. And that's where the freedom lies. You know that was something that was taught to me at a very early age. So that has been a really really useful experience. I came into meditation and through meditation. Yoga
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Brook McCarthy: which you know is a lot of Yoga helps you become a hell of a lot more aware of your body, and you know how it's feeling. So this has all been really, really useful stuff, and it's something that I continue to use. And I teach and coach in it in a very
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Brook McCarthy: subtle kind of a way, you know. I don't kind of push yoga and meditation on people, but it does kind of inform the approach that I have to it. But I think, you know, like I think it's, I think it's
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Brook McCarthy: we have to kind of acknowledge that what we do is actually quite radical. We are making something out of nothing. We are on the Internet saying, Hey, look at me. I can help you, I can, you know, change your life. I can transform your relationship with money, for example, with you.
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Brook McCarthy: You know you should trust me, and you should pay me. And what are you paying for exactly. Well, you're paying for
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Brook McCarthy: what words you're paying for ideas. You're paying for opinions you're paying for energy, you know. Like, what are you paying for it's quite intangible what we do, and we are quite. We are stepping outside the norm.
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Brook McCarthy: This is a radical thing, and it does cause a shit ton of upset for people's nervous system, because, you know, I've taught innumerable courses, mainly through training institutes, not under my own banner, on how to start a business and how to start a side business, and I can see within 5 min of meeting somebody, whether or not they're actually going to do it.
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Brook McCarthy: And the people that aren't going to do it. It has nothing to do with how good they are, how experienced they are, how skilled they are, how well connected. They are nothing to do with that.
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Brook McCarthy: It's it's too radical a concept for them
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Brook McCarthy: that you get to make it up.
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Brook McCarthy: that there is not a rule book. Even when I'm there for 9 weeks, holding your hand, you know, helping you through every goddamn decision and making it as easy as possible in a way that you and I did not probably have access to nobody. You know I didn't do a course on how to start a business. I just started.
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Eloise Tomkins: Hmm.
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Brook McCarthy: But even after this, you know, you still can't quite get your head around the fact that you are going to be making all the decisions.
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Brook McCarthy: There's no rule book apart from exchange value for cash.
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Brook McCarthy: and you know, good luck to you. And people either step forward and they lean in, and they're like, or they're like, what fuck. I can't do this like this. I'm off to do another course or find another book, because there's got to be a, you know. There's got to be a rule book somewhere. Where's the rule book?
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Eloise Tomkins: Yeah, there's got to be. There's got to be another strategy that I can implement that somebody else will give me. And it's so funny because you're spot on absolutely. And the thing that you said that stood out there was a 1 sentence that stood out in terms of why they don't.
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Brook McCarthy: Right.
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Eloise Tomkins: Did you know what that is?
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Brook McCarthy: Don't know. You tell me.
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Eloise Tomkins: I will. I don't believe I can do this.
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Brook McCarthy: Hmm.
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Eloise Tomkins: I'm sorry.
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Eloise Tomkins: Where was your moment of you? Believing that you could do this? Was that always a thing for you that you believed that you could do this, or.
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Brook McCarthy: Yeah, I mean back to that kind of early experience with the Babysitter's club.
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Brook McCarthy: Hmm!
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Brook McCarthy: It had like I demonstrated that it was possible. And you know we weren't making big money. But you know we made money. We made money, and I think that this is one of you know, we're talking about nervous systems. So therefore, we're kind of talking about risk.
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Brook McCarthy: And this is one of the best
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Brook McCarthy: things that we can do for ourselves. To reduce risk and increase certainty is to know that no matter the economy, no matter the industry, no matter the circumstance. We can make money
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Brook McCarthy: without, you know, needing to be beholden to somebody choosing us for a job. Because I, you know. To be frank, I didn't have a huge amount of fun, as you know, an employee. I wasn't like people weren't queuing up to to hire me. I had a skill set. That was, you know, I was an art student. And then when I decided, okay, you know, quarter-life crisis. I'm going back to Union this time. There's going to be a job at the end. I'm going to make a sensible decision. There's going to be a straightforward path into a job
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Brook McCarthy: idiot decided to do a masters of arts in international relations. The career path from there is you volunteer for 2 years for an Ngo, and don't get paid or get paid, you know.
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Brook McCarthy: below average weight.
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Eloise Tomkins: Go to university, get a good. You'll get a good job if you go to university. What fucking rubbish is that.
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Brook McCarthy: Yeah, forget it. And the thing is, there's so many of us. There's more of us in that category than there is the sensible people that did law. Mind you, the sensible people that did law. Most of them don't work in law. Everyone I meet with a law degree, you know, 95% of them aren't lawyers.
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Eloise Tomkins: Or the women who are in law complain that they're not getting paid as much as their male counterparts because they don't feel like. Anyway, that's a whole separate conversation, but you know, and but it but it's that thing right like, because I think women don't believe that they can. So again having this conversation right like we even with you now like of, because it's funny when
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Eloise Tomkins: you are someone who steps into owning your worth. And I kind of hate that because I don't think that you, as a person, are more worthy of charging X than the next.
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Brook McCarthy: Yeah, let's talk about that. Let's talk about worth.
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Eloise Tomkins: Go for it.
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Brook McCarthy: S.
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Brook McCarthy: So I really really hate the word worth, and I hate the word deserve. I think we should, in relation to money. I think we should just delete those 2 words from our vocabulary. I don't think they're helpful, in fact, I think they're quite harmful, and this is part of the problem. So if we can bring this back to women, for example.
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Brook McCarthy: it is not uncommon
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Brook McCarthy: for self-employed women, be they freelancers or otherwise, to get into money, negotiations and money conversations with prospective clients, where the prospective client is an energy vampire, and they are making the female business owner feel that it's all very personal.
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Brook McCarthy: and if you know, if they're charging too much, that either they're taking the food from their baby's mouths.
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Brook McCarthy: or you know, they're full of themselves, and they've got absolutely no idea, because they're actually far worse than they think they are, and the person's doing them a favor by hiring them in the 1st place. So that is really, really common. I've been privy to that. And I've seen that happen multiple times. The gender pay gap in self-employment widens. It doesn't narrow.
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Brook McCarthy: and you know yes, part of that, perhaps, has to do with advocacy and pricing, and all of the you know, all the psychology behind how we, price. But I also think a lot of it comes from the fact that in negotiations, you know, women are often negotiated down a hell of a lot harder than their male counterparts are.
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Brook McCarthy: Yeah.
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Eloise Tomkins: But I would. I'm gonna put this back on you because, like, then.
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Eloise Tomkins: we've got you who's charging your rates right? So why is it that you are able to charge what you charge and feel good about what you're charging.
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Eloise Tomkins: You know what I mean. So walk me through that, because that I'm so curious how? Because
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Eloise Tomkins: I hear what you're saying, and you're right, because
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Eloise Tomkins: in a sense you are the I don't say minority. I can't think of the word. But like you're the what's outlier. You know what I mean like, because I think a lot of what you write. A lot of women don't. A lot of women do have difficulty with their pricing, and a lot of that is, society has.
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Brook McCarthy: Hmm.
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Eloise Tomkins: Conditioned us to think that we shouldn't want money. There's a lot of you're the helper. I had a client the other day. He's like, oh, I'm just the fixer, and I'm like, are you the fixer? Or is that society's conditioning that society's conditioning? My friend.
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Brook McCarthy: Also, the fixer is like playing a pretty big, bloody role, you know. The fixer in pulp fiction came in and cleaned up the dead body that had been splattered all over the back of the car. Like that's.
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Eloise Tomkins: You're right. There's huge roles for it. But then, how did you step out of that? Because stepping out of that role and or not just that role, but those kind of roles that do keep us stuck in.
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Brook McCarthy: Yeah.
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Eloise Tomkins: Under charging. How did you get out of that and step into this.
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Brook McCarthy: Yeah, look, I think it's a. It's a practice. And this is the thing is like, we cannot think ourselves into clarity. We cannot think ourselves into confidence. We cannot think ourselves, you know, into all of a sudden becoming the person that we dream of becoming. We have to actually take that intention and make it real in the real world. And so, you know, I told a story earlier about the counting out, you know, $900 worth of cash.
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Brook McCarthy: It was a series of actions, and over time all those series of actions became, you know, took me to the place where I am
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Brook McCarthy: now, and you know, charging what it is that I want to charge.
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Brook McCarthy: And you know it didn't necessarily happen quickly. It didn't necessarily happen easily. There was definitely 2 steps forward, one step back amongst it.
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Brook McCarthy: But you know it's things such as you know. I love talking about money, and I love asking people how much they paid and how much they charge. And all this stuff, because how the hell else are you going to find out this goddamn information.
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Eloise Tomkins: -
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Brook McCarthy: You know. It's finding out, for example, that somebody has spent $26,000 on a 1 day workshop
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Brook McCarthy: you know where they weren't that pleased with the outcome of the workshop. And it wasn't that great, really? And you know, the person had been unprofessional, you know. Blah blah blah. So oh, okay, good. Oh, I worked with a client who would charge $14,000 for a day workshop.
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Brook McCarthy: you know, and being a business owner, and being able to see what other people are doing. I had another client, for example, who charged, you know, excellent money, and made 170,000 in her 1st year in business, and the reason she did that was because she was privy to information. She was privy to what other consultants charged.
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Brook McCarthy: She knew the industry and what was already being charged, and she charged accordingly. If she hadn't had that information she wouldn't have been charging like that. So it's it's those kinds of things, you know. It's it's meeting somebody, for example, who's 24 years old, who's got far less experience than you are, and they're charging double what you're charging. And you're like,
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Brook McCarthy: okay, good. Oh, I need to up my game again, and the thing is, every time I have increased my prices. It has come with a commensurate increase
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Brook McCarthy: in identity, and it's come with a commensurate increase in.
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Brook McCarthy: You know what I am actually capable of, because I think it's really normal to get comfortable. It's really normal and human to get complacent. We don't realize we're getting complacent. We just are. That's you know how life operates.
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Brook McCarthy: and when you charge a price where you're like. Oh, shit! I better deliver.
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Brook McCarthy: It pushes you to actually raise your standards, you know, put in the put in the. And I don't want to say
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Brook McCarthy: time as well, because oftentimes, when you increase your prices, you're working fewer hours. If I'm working, for example, with a client in a mastermind where they're earning 30 KA month. They don't want to be talking to me once a week every week. They don't have time to talk to me once a week every week, you know. They barely got time to scratch themselves, so that you know it's not like. You have to increase your prices, and therefore you have to kind of work all the hours to justify it.
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Brook McCarthy: It's it's something a little bit more intangible. It's something a little bit more nuanced, or perhaps subtle, than that.
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Eloise Tomkins: It's so interesting like. And I see this so often where there's that sense of well.
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Eloise Tomkins: earning more means working more. Yeah. And it's this weird
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Eloise Tomkins: gosh, like logic, which makes sense like when we think about childhood, you know, like, okay, like, I like, for example, I saw my dad working God, 24, 7, like he was never home. And so in my mind, I told myself, I never want to work as hard as that. But then he. We didn't have a lot of money growing up. So I was like, well, if he works that hard, then I
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Eloise Tomkins: never gonna earn money. And it's like that shifting that identity. And I don't know, like, can you tell us a little bit more about the identity shifts that you.
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Brook McCarthy: Yeah, yeah, I mean going on. I mean, that's a great point. There's a couple of things that I want to make in relation to that point. The 1st one is your father, and the second one is working hard equals earning more wonder. We're not earning more because we're already stressed. We're already overwhelmed. We're already.
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Eloise Tomkins: 100 points.
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Brook McCarthy: Much. We've already got all this shit going on, and if we are the fixer, you know, if we are kind of following that gendered
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Brook McCarthy: no
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Brook McCarthy: expectation of, you know you have to volunteer, and you have to be helpful, and you have to always say yes, and you know you have to be the 1st to put your hand up when somebody's asking for a volunteer like I'm sitting on my hands. I'm not volunteering.
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Brook McCarthy: but you know, of course, we're not earning more because we've got we've got it all. You know, we're overwhelmed. As it is, we need way more support than we're currently getting. We need to tell people to fucking Piss off and to pull their own weight, and to stop being so dependent on us.
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Brook McCarthy: you know, and we need to kind of shake things up. We need to move from dollars for hours to leveraging ourselves
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Brook McCarthy: and getting paid, you know, for assets that we're creating, including.
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Eloise Tomkins: Do that, because that's what I really I want to hear like, how did you do that? Because, like.
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Brook McCarthy: I I cause I can see it in you, and I know that you haven't like as you were speaking just then. I'm like my gosh! I had this. I don't know why it just popped into my head like this. Young you kind of not naive like. That's not the right word, but young, you know, new and learning, but that was just the 1st popped into my head. Sorry
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Brook McCarthy: no.
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Eloise Tomkins: And you know you'll learn. You'll learn all of these. And this is the thing with business, because you're you're just starting.
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Brook McCarthy: Yeah.
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Eloise Tomkins: Starting to
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Eloise Tomkins: unpack and untangle well, like you said before, though we not all of us do not all of us untangle it. But you did. And how did I? Just I want to know what.
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Brook McCarthy: Yeah.
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Eloise Tomkins: Well, you're always going to have a cap on your income right when you're charging by the hour.
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Eloise Tomkins: Yeah.
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Eloise Tomkins: you are kind of a gun for hire, and you've swapped one boss for many, and you know there's nothing necessarily wrong with that. You can make an excellent income, and you can earn a shit ton more than you would do in a commsurate job.
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Eloise Tomkins: Hmm!
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Brook McCarthy: Because, you know, hopefully, you're charging more. And you know you're being a bit choosy with your clients. But still, in effect, you are dollars for hours, and what I noticed is, you know, like I said, I started at 60 an hour, 70, 80, 9,100. I got up to 145, where I was sending invoices, saying, such and such hours! Times! 145 an hour.
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Brook McCarthy: and then it it appeared, and it was a big client like it was a hospital. It wasn't a soloist. I had a lot of soloists, but in this instance it was a hospital, and I could see that he was uneasy. I'm opposite the CEO, and I could see he's uneasy at 1, 45 an hour, and it was like, well, why am I charging by the hour, anyway? Because you know that client that I referred to earlier that I was 60 bucks an hour, and I had to kind of say goodbye to them.
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Eloise Tomkins: Hmm.
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Brook McCarthy: He said to me, you are the most expensive person that we have.
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Brook McCarthy: You're good at what you do, but I'm paying you more than I'm paying anyone else. And at the time I was thinking, are you fucking kidding like I'm charging everyone else 120? I'm charging you 60. Are you kidding? He said. There's a young guy in the office, and he's so enthusiastic I pay him $20 an hour, and he's teaching himself skills off Youtube. And I,
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Brook McCarthy: I'm like, I wanted to laugh. I didn't. But I'm like, Are you kidding? You are paying this person
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Brook McCarthy: to learn on Youtube on your dime
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Brook McCarthy: like the the thing that happens, of course, the better you are, the faster you are like. I can have an intuitive hit with the client. It's not about how quick that intuitive hit is. It's like I've got the expertise. I've got the runs, and I've seen this situation that the clients in a thousand times before. I know what the you know main options are. I know the pros and cons of those options. I know intuitively, because I know the client and I know their business.
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Eloise Tomkins: What?
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Brook McCarthy: The best decision is.
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Brook McCarthy: you know, we can have a 1 h conversation. They can go away and charge $25,000 like they can have a direct return of $25,000, which has happened multiple times from a single 1 h session. Why the hell would I be charging by the hour that makes no sense.
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Brook McCarthy: You know, like, and if I'm doing digital marketing, I've been doing digital marketing for I don't know. 1819 years I've been producing content on the Internet.
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Brook McCarthy: You should see me. I'm like ding, ding, ding, ding, ding.
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Eloise Tomkins: If you're watching on the Youtube video here later. That was so good.
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Brook McCarthy: There's smoke coming from my fingertips, you know, like I'm moving so fast, so like it has nothing. And but a lot of people still don't get that. You know. My mom, for example, she's like you got paid. How much I said. I got paid $5,000 for a 45 min
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Brook McCarthy: speech, and she's like what.
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Eloise Tomkins: She said.
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Brook McCarthy: How long did it take you to drive there? And I'm like what I'm like, what does that have to do with anything I'm like it was a it was I don't know. It was a 25 min car ride, and she's like, yes, but it's 25 min there, and it's 25 min back, and it's a 45 min like she couldn't comprehend
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Brook McCarthy: that I'd get paid 5,000 she's like, but it comes down to your time right? And I'm like, No, mom, that's exactly what it doesn't. It doesn't come down to my time.
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Eloise Tomkins: How interesting, like the parental money stories that they hold, and being that person that shifts like, tries to shift that money. And I see this so often. You know where it is.
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Eloise Tomkins: people out earning their parents and the.
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Brook McCarthy: And.
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Eloise Tomkins: Emotions that come.
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Brook McCarthy: Yeah.
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Eloise Tomkins: Oh, and I I know I struggle with that, too, you know, like.
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Brook McCarthy: 3 times.
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Eloise Tomkins: I could never earn more than my dad, because I don't want to earn as much like. Oh, it's wild.
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Brook McCarthy: Yeah, it is wild. It's totally wild. I remember, because I worked for my dad. And you know this is probably something else that made me a little bit more comfortable with money
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Brook McCarthy: is, I learned bookkeeping from a young age, and I would do his books, and you know, I'd answer the phone to people that were seeking to be paid. You know, they're like
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Brook McCarthy: those invoices are overdue. When's the money coming? And I'm like, Oh, checks in the mail. George checks in the mail, you know, so like I was comfortable with the fact that you know businesses have debt that you know.
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Eloise Tomkins: Attitudes and.
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Brook McCarthy: And blah blah, and I knew how much my dad got paid, and I knew how much he got paid at the peak of his career. So when I was coming towards that number, in my own profit loss.
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Brook McCarthy: my own business, I was like, this is wrong.
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Eloise Tomkins: Hmm.
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Brook McCarthy: This is wrong. Surely my dad was older than me, or better than me, or you know, like, how? How can I out earn my dad that makes you know this is not respectful.
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Brook McCarthy: you know. But
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Brook McCarthy: I it's again. It's kind of one of those things that what you know. Are you going to stay? Are you going to deliberately sabotage your earnings? Because for some
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Brook McCarthy: random reason you've decided that this is wrong, you know. Is that is that actually a thing.
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Eloise Tomkins: You've made it conscious, though, right?
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Eloise Tomkins: This is the thing that a lot of people don't like seeing people, but women they don't do. They don't make it conscious. Because, like 95, 90 to 95% of what we do is unconscious right?
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Eloise Tomkins: Which is wild. And we think that we're making decisions in our business. I remember having a conversation. This wasn't a potential client. How we met in some training course or something like that.
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Eloise Tomkins: You know you get into little breakout rooms and was talking to this woman, and she was like, Oh.
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Eloise Tomkins: my coaching business has just always been just under the 6 figure, Mark. It's always been around 90,000, but it has never hit the 100 k mark she's like. So I just don't think that there's a market enough for my business to hit the 6 figure mark and I was just sitting there thinking.
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Eloise Tomkins: as long as you believe that that is gonna come true, because, you know, as soon as you get close to the 6 figure, Mark, pull back on marketing, pull back on promoting, or whatever it was. I know what she was doing, but it was just all of this self sabotaging behavior, but because she'd identified with this is just how it is.
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Eloise Tomkins: She was reinforcing it. And I see that time and time and time.
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Eloise Tomkins: Yeah. And I
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Eloise Tomkins: I wish I could just like shake people sometimes and be like what the like you. You can have whatever you can do, whatever you want.
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Brook McCarthy: Totally. And you know you also need to find evidence elsewhere.
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Brook McCarthy: You know, if you there's a saying about. If you're fighting for your limitations, you know. You'll get to keep them.
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Brook McCarthy: You're taking a piece of evidence which is your prior profit and loss statements. And you're deciding that is the evidence end of story.
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Eloise Tomkins: Hmm.
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Brook McCarthy: So one of the things that I do like, you know, going back to raising your prices. One of the things I do with clients where they want to raise their price is to go. Okay, off you go, go and do a survey of people who are doing something similar to what you're doing.
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Brook McCarthy: and and find out what the price. You know, what they're charging. Invariably they will come back with a massive big range of pricing where somebody's charging, you know, giving away the the farm for a song, and somebody else is charging money. That just seems unbelievable. And it's like, Oh, okay, great. So pricing is arbitrary, and you get to choose. You get to decide.
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Brook McCarthy: So go and look for evidence of people that are doing what you want to be doing, earning the money that you want to be earning? Because if you're actually seeking that, you know, you will find that you will find people which you know I do. I work with people oftentimes who have got young babies.
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Brook McCarthy: and you know they've got busy lives. They've got husbands or partners that are unhelpful, or that are away, or whatever.
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Brook McCarthy: and they're earning 3 times 4 times what I'm earning.
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Eloise Tomkins: No.
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Brook McCarthy: Well, okay, well, they are demonstrating practically possible
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Brook McCarthy: that, you know it's only a matter of how and how is not a stick of which to Oh, my God, how how it becomes an expansive open ended like, you know, question to lead me into okay creative thinking. I'm going to get creative. Now I can see it demonstrated in the real world that it's possible. And so, rather than and this I wasted a shit ton of time doing this, my God, I made all the mistakes I've wasted a lot of years.
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Brook McCarthy: Well, it's okay for that person, because they don't have any kids. Well, it's okay for that person, because, you know, they're I don't know. Married to somebody wealthy. It's okay for that person, because they had a background in media. It's okay for that person, because, you know, let me come up with a thousand stupid stories
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Brook McCarthy: to justify me staying exactly where I am.
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Eloise Tomkins: Because your nervous system wasn't ready.
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Eloise Tomkins: It was, you know, and when you have that nervous system it will look for that. It'll continue to look for that familiarity, and and I love that. You share that because
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Eloise Tomkins: we all have those story. I have these stories too. Right? I had my story for God decades. And
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Eloise Tomkins: the difference is, are you going to keep holding that story? Well, one.
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Eloise Tomkins: Because the 1st part is to kind of go. Well, okay, there are stories, even if I don't know what they are. I have stories.
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Brook McCarthy: Hmm.
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Eloise Tomkins: And then the second part is well, do I want to bring them into conscious awareness? And it's funny, because as a psychologist like when I worked as a psychologist I would have clients that would be like Ellie.
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Eloise Tomkins: I, fucking hate therapy, because with all of these stories have been brought into the light. I'm like, I know it sucks. But you know the alternative is, you know, what life would have looked like had you have not brought these stories into the light.
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Eloise Tomkins: Yeah.
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Eloise Tomkins: it's scary, because you know, the stories are there. And you know you have conscious awareness of them. Now we have conscious awareness that there's hope and possibility. We just don't know what that path looks like, but I guarantee
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Eloise Tomkins: I don't.
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Eloise Tomkins: That path is a lot better.
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Brook McCarthy: Yeah, yeah 100%. It's 100%.
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Eloise Tomkins: So, you know it's fascinating to me that we shame ourselves for having the stories and going on that journey. But
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Eloise Tomkins: I don't know like. I kind of wonder.
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Eloise Tomkins: Were you ready to go on that journey back? Then.
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Brook McCarthy: Yeah. And I think that was part of yet another epiphany, and yet another kind of awakening and a giant leap forward of recognizing that I was really boring. I was boring myself.
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Eloise Tomkins: Hmm.
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Brook McCarthy: And I was surrounding myself with business buddies
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Brook McCarthy: where we were boring each other. We were saying the same, you know. It's like a Friendship Group.
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Brook McCarthy: where you know, they say this, and you can almost predict it. And it's like, you know what these are the wrong people. My stories are boring, and my stories are being reinforced by this little gaggle of passive, aggressive. Let's stay small and poor together, you know. Let's bitch about other people that are earning more than us. Let's let's build up our snobbery as a defensive mechanism on. Why, we're better, but we're poorer.
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Brook McCarthy: you know, and and let's stay stuck and happy together. And I'm like, Okay, this is not working because these people don't have what I want, you know, like, this is not actually what I want. I want to be in a room where I am the least intelligent person. There
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Brook McCarthy: I want to be in a room where I'm being challenged. I'm being pushed, you know, and I feel out of my depth. And you know, people are modeling the kinds of lives and the kinds of money and the kinds of impact that I desperately want like that. They're the rooms that I want to be in. So you know, that was yet another kind of
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Brook McCarthy: stage. And it wasn't fun, you know, because.
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Eloise Tomkins: That was exactly what was going through my mind. All that was going through my mind then was, let's ask Brooke about what sitting in that discomfort of being in that room was like, because I relate to everything that you just said. There I get. Oh, God, I'm not gonna go on a rant.
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Eloise Tomkins: I could, because I get so irritated. Okay, maybe it's coming just a little.
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Eloise Tomkins: But I do get irritated going into these networking events where it's exactly that. It's kind of like, you know. Oh, you've got your little business, and you've got your little side hustle, and you know we're clapping for you because you're in the room because you actually are good at what you do. But we're gonna hire your whatever the fuck you're offering.
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Brook McCarthy: Hmm
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Brook McCarthy: food, platter, or whatever, because you're in the room, not because it's actually any good, not because it's like brilliant, but just because you're coming to this event, and I'm like.
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Eloise Tomkins: Yeah, I wanna I wanna clap for you because you're excellent. And if you are mediocre, mediocre, me.
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Eloise Tomkins: do you get the word that I'm trying to say there
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Eloise Tomkins: mediocre. I couldn't get that out. This is.
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Brook McCarthy: That's the word. That's the word.
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Eloise Tomkins: Anyway, I'm gonna stop, because otherwise I do go on a little rant about this. But
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Eloise Tomkins: being in that room, sitting in that discomfort and that that there, that is the work. The work is not building a business that feels comfortable, I mean, if that's what you want it to be. And if you're happy with where you are, great good for you.
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Eloise Tomkins: that's not me.
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Brook McCarthy: Yeah.
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Eloise Tomkins: I want a business, and I know you do, too, and a lot of the women listening will want that business.
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Eloise Tomkins: The way, what I'm hearing you say through everything that you've said today is that
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Eloise Tomkins: you need to be comfortable with that discomfort.
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Brook McCarthy: Oh, shit. Yeah, like this. That's when the best stuff happens, right, you know, like the the amount of times where I've had a really awesome opportunity. I'm always uncomfortable. I'm always. I'm always uncomfortable, like people say to me, Oh, you you so confident! I'm like, are you kidding? I'm like dying right now.
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Brook McCarthy: I might be confident, because I'm actually showing up.
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Eloise Tomkins: Yeah.
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Brook McCarthy: But you know, like you better believe that I've had a bad night's sleep the night before, or you know I'm kind of thinking. Is this the time, am I finally, gonna.
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Eloise Tomkins: Have you?
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Brook McCarthy: My pants is this? Is this the moment?
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Eloise Tomkins: I love that. No, don't, please don't shoot your pants like, but you know what, even if you did right like you would, you would come back from that, because.
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Brook McCarthy: Yeah.
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Eloise Tomkins: That discomfort, and being able to kind of sit with and tolerate that discomfort, is really where.
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Brook McCarthy: I think, yeah. And I think the thing I kind of where my brain's going with this is, there are so many people that have such brilliant life experiences. They've got strengths. They've done unbelievable.
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Eloise Tomkins: Yeah.
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Brook McCarthy: Things, and we forget that. You know we forget that we've survived the most, you know, devastating things that we've had tragedy. We've had trauma. We've had all kinds of shit going on, and we have made it through. And then we start our business, and we're getting terrified
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Brook McCarthy: by something that actually is not that exciting? It's not that. It's not that big of a deal like.
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Eloise Tomkins: I know. But tell our nervous system that like it, and that's the thing like that's where I get like I'm like, I hear you. I agree with you. Yeah, but our nervous system cannot distinguish that.
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Brook McCarthy: Hmm.
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Eloise Tomkins: Piece of $50. Note to also being exposed to a lion. It thinks it, it perceives it the same way, and that is where nervous system works subconscious, rewiring
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Eloise Tomkins: good
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Eloise Tomkins: like for the clients that I work with really kick in. Because if you're looking at a $50 note and going. Oh, my fucking God, it's a bear! I mean logically, you know that it's not a bear.
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Brook McCarthy: Hmm, hmm.
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Eloise Tomkins: Your nervous system doesn't. Your nervous system literally does not care.
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Brook McCarthy: True.
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Eloise Tomkins: It's about money.
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Brook McCarthy: Yeah.
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Eloise Tomkins: Thinks that you're gonna die. And I know that sounds like every time I say, I'm like God. It sounds ridiculous because we logically get that. That's not true, but internally it's a very different story. And that's why I love like kind of what you were saying, and you've kind of said so many things that reiterate the stuff that I speak of in terms of stretching your capacity, your nervous system, capacity through micro moments.
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Brook McCarthy: Micro actions, and then betting it down.
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Eloise Tomkins: Yeah, for sure. And then when you've embedded it, you can level up again. And and that's why it's never one. And done. I was talking. Actually, I was actually talking with Denise Duffield, Thomas the other day who and she's like multimillion and money coach. Yada Yada Yada also kind of saying that doesn't matter, like there's still other layers to unpack, and it.
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Brook McCarthy: Yeah.
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Eloise Tomkins: About the money.
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Brook McCarthy: Yeah, yeah.
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Eloise Tomkins: How we sit with it. So. Oh, my gosh, Brooke, I feel like we could talk for hours and hours and hours. I've loved this conversation.
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Brook McCarthy: Me too.
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Eloise Tomkins: I can't work. There's so many like thoughts just bumping around in my mind. But
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Eloise Tomkins: we need to wrap up, and what I'm wondering is if people are curious about how they can find you, how they can reach you, how they can connect with you. I'm going to put all of your info in the show notes, anyway. So keep that in mind. They'll definitely be there. But where? Where can they find you? Is it Linkedin Insta somewhere else?
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Brook McCarthy: Yeah, I'm I'm on all the places because I'm a digital marketing trainer. So if there's a social media site, I'm probably on it. And I do love social media.
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Brook McCarthy: Lately I have been enjoying threads and Instagram's probably my favorite. But yes, Linkedin is also a good, sensible place to connect.
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Eloise Tomkins: That's.
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Brook McCarthy: Correct on Linkedin.
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Eloise Tomkins: I hate. I love Linkedin, but I'm like I'm too unhinged for Linkedin.
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Brook McCarthy: Gotcha.
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Eloise Tomkins: People post too many like Cutesy, little like. Oh, I had such a lovely time at this networking event, and oh, so lovely to connect with you. Clap.
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Eloise Tomkins: I'm like, I'm too unhinged. I'm
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Eloise Tomkins: I gotta stop because I'm gonna go on. I'm I'm feeling ranty, and I'm just like, stop ranting. But I will share all of that info and and Brooke and I. We need to talk more off there because we were saying earlier that we gonna do like an unhing. Well, I added the unhinged bit Brooke.
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Brook McCarthy: Yes.
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Eloise Tomkins: Add that but accountability buddies the social media.
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Eloise Tomkins: If you see Brooke and I posting on socials, and we're both a little bit unhinged. That's why. But, Brooke, it was amazing to chat money with you, and thank you for sharing your thoughts both what you have experienced yourself and your clients. I know that it's gonna land so deeply with people. So I really appreciate you sharing.
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Brook McCarthy: Thank you. Thanks so much for the opportunity.
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Eloise Tomkins: Oh, lovely to chat with you! Thanks.
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Eloise Tomkins: and for everyone else. Sorry just to round off my episode. I'll see you all next week. Until then, take care of yourselves.
