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Denise Duffield-Thomas: Yep, yep, recording. Yep.
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Eloise Tomkins: Oh, it didn't say, recording, Okay, Hello, and welcome to the rich woman rising. Podcast. I'm your host, Eloise Tompkins. And I help women in business to heal their relationship with money through their subconscious and the nervous system. And today I am excited to bring the Og money mentor to the stage. Denise Duffield, Thomas. She is seriously the money mentor, and she has worked with
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Eloise Tomkins: entrepreneurs who want to make money and change the world. So we are very aligned, and she helps people to charge premium prices without feeling guilt, release the fear of money and create a 1st class life. How cool is that now. I don't know if you've read any of her books, but she has lucky bitch. Get rich. Sorry, get rich, lucky bitch.
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Eloise Tomkins: and her newest book chill and prosper, which give you a really fresh and funny roadmap to living a life of abundance without burnout. So all of these things, Denise, we are just so aligned, so super excited to talk to you, and I know that your money boot camp has helped hundreds of thousands of people across the world, and
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Eloise Tomkins: even though you're a lazy introvert, which is kind of like me as well. So.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: Yes, I love it. Thanks for having me, Eloise.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: I know I love talking to other people who work in the money space as well, because I just think it's so important to like, there can't be too many of us right? Like we've we've really got important work to do sometimes in normalizing money and just making it an easy conversation for us to talk.
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Eloise Tomkins: How are you
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Eloise Tomkins: for sure? For sure. And you know I think you were the pioneer in this space, like in terms of.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: Wasn't. Actually, I always. I always like to mention my money Mentor, Kendall Summerhawk she is who really introduced me to this conversation of money mindset, and I just I love her work. So I appreciate you saying that. But
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: for me no, I've got a money mentor, too.
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Eloise Tomkins: Isn't it funny, though, like how you know, like, I don't know. Maybe it's that like you were saying like, because you work with new waves of entrepreneurs. Right so for me
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Eloise Tomkins: you were the og in my mind. But for you when you started there was someone else, and this is why, like, there's never the market is never too saturated. So I love that.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: Definitely. Yeah, definitely. And also there'll be like new young people coming in now who won't relate to me, you know. And so there's I think anyone listening who you're like. Oh, maybe I can talk about money to go for it, because there'll always be someone who needs to hear it from you and your perspective.
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Eloise Tomkins: Absolutely. And you know it comes like even just that. Right like is that scarcity mindset of? Oh, there's not enough. There's not enough. But I remember like, because when I was thinking about starting a business, and I'm like, Oh, but there's already people doing it. And then, as I drove home from work that day I noticed about 5 pizza shops on the way home.
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Eloise Tomkins: and they were all different. Like they were. One was wood fire, one was authentic Italian. One was, you know, the chain pizza place. And I was like, Oh, okay. So even though there's 5 of them, they're like 5 different varieties. But we're not talking about pizza. We're talking about you and your money story, because I know your story is epic, and
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Eloise Tomkins: what I love about it is that you wanted money, and you weren't ashamed to
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Eloise Tomkins: kind of stand on your soapbox and say that which can be really scary.
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Eloise Tomkins: Can you tell us a little bit about what that journey has been like for you to kind of start from. I don't want to say nothing, but not from millions to where you are today.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: Well, so my mom was 17 when she had me
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: and my parents split up pretty quickly, and so my mom literally had nothing. Her parents didn't support her at all. And so most of my early life, we were literally just moving around a lot and there was a lot of
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: instability in lots of ways, so that she had a lot of domestic violence relationships. And there was just yeah, a lot of insecurity. The thing, though that is really interesting is my mom is. She's a very happy go, lucky person.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: And so I think, even though we had that
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: there was always this sense of like, well, something lucky is going to turn up, and it kind of did for her, and you know she would
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: win the lottery, or she would win at Bingo, or she'd win the meat tray. And there's something would really
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: kind of happen, I think, what that created for me, though, as even now, as an adult, is this real feast or famine nervous system, roller coaster.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: where I would be always anticipating the bad thing rather than the good thing.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: Something bad's gonna happen, something bad's gonna happen. And so when I was, I think, 8 or 9, she got offered a council house and we had to move from Sydney to the Central coast, and this felt like, Oh, there's going to be some security and stability here. So we moved to a fairly new Housing commission neighborhood that was like a planned community. And I started making friends. And what was really great about that is that everyone had the same house.
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Eloise Tomkins: Hmm.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: Like literally
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: it would be like, Is your house? Is your staircase on that side or that side? And it felt like, oh, this is a chance for us to really embed in and create some stability. And that's actually when I created my 1st business when I was 9, and I also joined like a dance school, which became a real sense of stability for me. My mom, though her pattern is.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: how can I disrupt this?
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: And and so then she got married to someone who was much older, and he was quite wealthy in like a he was a washing machine repairman.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: millionaire, kind of thing and we moved from our little housing commission house, which really for me is the only house I ever remember is we'd been there for a while to his big mansion.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: and so it feels like, Oh, cool! That's a real rags to riches story. But again.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: my mum, who likes to be free
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: in that they were together, for I think 7 years we moved in and out of that mansion probably about 7 times.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: and so when things got a bit too much or too controlling, or she felt like she needed to be free. We'd move from the mansion and whatever little flat she could find.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: and we were actually driving past my old hometown on the weekend, and I said, Oh, see that restaurant! We used to live behind that restaurant. Oh, see that place. We used to live there, and it was like all these little rentals and things. And so it wasn't a rags to rich story, because it was just that same nervous system thing for me of something good, something bad, something good, something bad. Don't get complacent.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: But what it really emphasized for me
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: from a young age. My mom, my aunties, my Nan, who were all
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: born in a time where you really couldn't make money so much as a woman. There was no flexibility. There's no creative way that they could be entrepreneurs. They would always say to me, Make your own money, don't get married, be independent, so I think from an early age it was like, How can I get money? How can I make money? So I would always start little businesses. But I think that experience with my stepdad made it very clear to me. It was like, men have the power. Men have the money. You cannot trust
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: that good times will last. So I got good messages and bad messages, but he was actually the 1st entrepreneur I'd ever met
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: as well, and he would teach me about business, and he would let me work in his stores and answer phones and things like that. So I had this real, like
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: tricky relationship with this entrepreneurial presence in my life.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: And literally, the whole rest of my childhood was like that. It was. You know, they'd get divorced. My mom would have no money and then find someone else, and it was
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: very clear to me from an early age. You're on your own.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: you know. There's there's no safety net. Make your own money. So I moved out. At 18 I lived in a laundry shed in Sydney, literally a laundry shed that was $50 a week outside of the house.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: and I just felt like
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: I'm on my way, like I felt so excited on my 1st person to go to university was hard, but
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: I think I've always just had that that
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: I don't know that feeling of like I'm going to make it. I'm going to do something. So I went to university. It was a disaster. Filed all my subjects and screw, you know. Moved to London.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: for I was there for 9 years, and I went in and out of
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: I'll get a job. No, I hate the job. I'm going to set my own business.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: What am I doing. I don't know what I'm doing. I need money. Okay, I'll just get another job. So
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: that was really my journey underpinning. All of this, though, is this this creative side of me that
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: has always being a seeker and a sharer.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: And I would watch Oprah after school. I don't know if you watched Oprah as well.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: Yeah. And I would go to school, and I'd be like Oprah talked about this thing
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: called Gratitude a gratitude journal. Let's start a gratitude journal.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: And so, even if you talk to my friends now, from that time they would say, yeah. Denise was always the one who was trying to get us to do stuff like to write goals out. And just you know, she'd always try and improve us.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: And that's how that's what I'm that's exactly what I am like. Now, there's no difference. It's just that technology and a business
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: vehicle
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: came into the world where I could actually share that. And so now I'm like, I'm a guru. I don't know how to do anything. What I'm really good at, though, is to just be like, oh, okay, let's figure that out, you know. Oh, there's this tool that I learned. Let's try it. And I've somehow made that in into a business. So
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: yeah.
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Eloise Tomkins: It's interesting. Oh, my gosh! Like I was enthralled like, because in my mind, like I'm very funnily enough visual. I didn't realize how visual I was, but I had this visual of you as like this little kid, and I could just kind of visualize it in my mind, and
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Eloise Tomkins: it was really interesting to me, like when you were saying that you moved to London and you got a job, and then you didn't. And then you got a job. And then you didn't like my, my thought was, Wow, that was really replaying out the same patterns in a different way. But as mum, and that's exactly what our nervous system does is it will recreate those same familiar patterns over and over and over again.
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Eloise Tomkins: and even hearing you say, I don't know, I somehow created this business like.
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Eloise Tomkins: and I hear that a lot minimizing the accomplishments that you have like you didn't just somehow end up. Luckily creating this business. You worked really fucking hard
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Eloise Tomkins: and not just to create a business, but to change the narrative that you know mom did her best, absolutely, you know. But at the same time the impact that that had on a child
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Eloise Tomkins: would have been really tough. And I say that from experience right.
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Eloise Tomkins: And and so I guess, like, now, I'm really curious about well, how did you actually shift those patterns? And maybe even how do they still play out, despite on the surface, that success that other people would look at, and, you know.
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Eloise Tomkins: assume from the outside.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: Well, they they absolutely do play out like I I obviously
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: I'm an advocate for therapy, and I have to do a lot of stuff myself. I actually don't see a therapist so much at the moment. Every now and again I need to. But I do need a lot of energetic support myself, because those patterns are really really hard
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: to let go of. And actually, it's probably only in the last couple of years that I've had to remind myself
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: like, what are you trying to prove? What are you trying to overcome, and to let myself not work as much, and to change some of my goals because
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: I think you can. You can run for a long time of like I have to do. I have to do it. And then you just like.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: Oh, I don't need to do it anymore. But then, who am I? If I'm not trying to overcome something? So yes, it still plays out absolutely, I think for me, I was really lucky, though, that technology did catch up, and it's not to minimize it. But the reason why is because I think my grandmother and my mother actually probably had the skills and the creativity to do it. But they just weren't in a time where there was a mechanism for that.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: and I think there was a point where I was like, oh, look at me! I've broken the cycle because I've made money.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: but I really didn't in in lots of ways. I just
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: like not just happen to make it. But it was like I had to really do some work around that, too, to go. Oh, no, no! Making money isn't the cycle breaking.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: that's not the cycle breaking.
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Eloise Tomkins: Wow, that's really interesting. And I'm so curious about that, because I think a lot of people, particularly those listening to this podcast will be things like, have this mentality of well, if I just make more money that's going to solve all of my problems that is just going to make me feel better. And then I don't have to worry anymore, because I have money.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: Oh, it, it's just it is fascinating. Okay. So I didn't have proper bedside tables
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: until, like I was well into my thirties
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: because I had this thing of. We moved so much.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: Why put things on the walls?
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: Why own anything right?
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: And so then, when I started making money, and I remember buying like
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: like my 1st house, and I was like putting stuff on the walls and just being like.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: Then I took it too far because I bought a farm, had a bond.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: And then I started accumulating things
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: because I was like, I've never been able to
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: have stuff before. So I didn't have a healthy relationship with stuff
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: and so we bought this farm and we're gonna turn it into an event place all this kind of stuff. And I found I was thrifting, and I found this couch, and it was like an old fashioned one of those couches with the like.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: wouldn't
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: you know, like back, like the ornate carved back kind of thing. And I was like, Oh, my God, this is really cool! And then I was like, this would be so fun to put in the barn and like paint it, and then, if people come for a workshop instead of sitting on boring chairs, they can sit on these these couches. So then I went into another thrift store, and I found the same kind of couch, and I was like, Oh, my God! This is a whole thing. So I went home and looked to a marketplace. And I was like, Oh, my God! There's so many people selling these couches! Then the algorithm kicked in.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: So then I hired a truck, never driven a truck in my life had a moving truck.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: and in one weekend I got 22 of those couches.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: Yep, and I could see how then.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: right? A lot of times, we're either copying patterns or we're overcompensating. And this is where we see patterns coming in generations, right?
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: And then I was like, oh, because, remember, I don't know if you ever did this as a kid when they did the councils pick up, and people just chuckle their shit out, and the.
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Eloise Tomkins: Brief.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: Because I didn't have a lot of stuff, and I wasn't allowed to collect things because we moved so much there'd be a part of me that was like, oh, I could make something out of that! Oh, I could make something out of that!
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: I
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: I have that tendency. I was like. I can save that, and I have the money to save it.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: Oh, I can do that! I have the money to save it, and that's where things then become
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: too much, and I had to stop to be like, oh, my God! Just because I have the
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: not only the space now, the capacity, I also have a team to paint it.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: So then I had a whole team at my farm who I'd be like. Oh, what if we could do this, and they would make it happen.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: And so then I was like going down a different like.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: I don't know a different avenue of going.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: What do I actually want rather than what am I overcompensating for? Just or just because I can.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: I can be the person who who doesn't see the potential in other things. I did the same thing with cars, and I know I totally understand. It sounds very unrelatable, but I want to hear people to hear. Where are you doing it with smaller things that if you had money you would just do it with bigger things, as if they were marbles
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: right? And so I. I built up a collection of classic cars
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: because I was so at some point I had a a combi, because I love comedies so.
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Eloise Tomkins: They are really cool.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: They're so cool. Right? 74 combi. That was a like a right hand drive. So I could actually drive it. It was an automatic which is really hard to find, too. I had a chevy like a 1955 mint green chevy. A baby blue convertible. Mg, a Nissan S cargo that looks like a little snail for my farm.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: Some old trucks that don't go anywhere that farmers would drop them off and be like weirdos buying my old shitty truck that doesn't even go well, so I know there was another one somewhere in there, and what was really interesting again, is being that person who could
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: lack of going. Oh, I'm gonna be the one to like, save that or renovate that or whatever. And then, realizing
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: Combis, break down all the time. Don't have Aircon and suspension and the beautiful Chevy truck that if you don't drive it every day, it literally disintegrates and realizing that oh, is this my pattern of going when things are too hard.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: get rid of it, like my mom used to do right relationships too hard, all right, like we'd come home from school, and she's like when we've moved.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: And so it's like, where is the pattern? Where is myself? Where is an overcompensation. Where do things get too hard? And I want to bail out versus
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: where am I taking over responsibility for things because no one else wants to take that shitty car.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: It's it was a very fascinating experience. And this is why, again, we're talking about money. It's like more money doesn't change the underlying patterns. We think we're going to be better.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: a better version of ourselves. But what if we're exactly the same? And it's just
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: now? It's just money, and that can be liberating. It can be scary. But also realizing there's a real humanity in that right of going, you're literally going to be the same person. If you're extremely frugal person, and you feel like you're going to be homeless on the street. Guess what no amount of money in the bank is going to change that if you don't work on that. I've met people who are multimillionaires. They have that same feeling. I'm going to be homeless on the street.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: and then I've had the same thing, my mom right? She felt like a millionaire. Something lucky is going to happen.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: and and it does all the time.
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Eloise Tomkins: Is that how wild? And she does she have money? I don't know. Is Mom still around.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: Yeah, I feel you'll have a field day with this, for as a therapist, I financially support my mom.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: So my mom, yeah.
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Eloise Tomkins: Yeah, you're right. I could have a field day with that as a.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: And I can totally justify it. Got to a point where my mom was, because she's never, you know, had any qualifications or anything. So her last, like Job that she had was. She was a healthcare worker, working in a nursing home, you know. Getting up really early, I got to a point in my business where I thought
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: energetically, I can't earn any more money.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: because I felt really guilty about it.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: And so and I was, you know, paying for things for my mom and stuff like that. And instead, I said to her, like, I'm going to retire, you and you can just do whatever you want.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: And there's been times where that's felt like a burden. It's felt like a really unhealthy dynamic.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: And I've actually come to a really good place from it now, because I think
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: my mom's 64. Her mom died at 65, and I just think I'm never going to regret this. She lives her best fucking life. So she she lives in a motor home.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: She's in
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: Byron at the moment. I think so. She's she. I come home. It's parked in the drive. She turns up whenever she wants. She drives off whenever she wants. She's got boyfriends all around the country. She goes and volunteers at festivals. She went to Bali and got a tattoo recently like.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: and it's not. It's not a huge amount of money for me, right? There's been times where I felt like, wow! This is just continuing this dynamic of I am the parent. She is the child.
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Eloise Tomkins: Hmm.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: I've gotten over that now, and I go. What a fucking privilege!
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: I've also retired, my mother-in-law! That's a whole other thing
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: again. I think this, we will never regret that.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: and like it feels like I've stepped now into it. It's not a burden. I've stepped into this matriarch thing, and also. Then now I've accepted more help from my mom. I go. Wow! When she comes and stays with us like she, she'll play games with the kids, and she's teaching them how to gamble. And she's teaching how to play pool and I just think what a wrecking privilege that is that she is literally helping me raise my kids. And now, also to you know, she'll come and she'll clean the house like she'll, you know.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: and also she's
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: I feel like it's shifted our dynamic where? She'll be like, oh, can I make some food? And I never felt that from her as a kid, that she was my mom. Now, I'm like, mommy, can you make me a sandwich.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: you know, and then she'll make my kids food, too, because I'm like, I don't want to be the mom, and
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: so I've come to. I've come to a healthier
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: place around that. But for a while it probably wasn't healthy, because I felt resentful. And I think, too, I felt resentful because I felt like, Oh, I'm working, and she gets to have the fun life, which is what happened as a kid right? And now I'm like.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: well, I am having a fun life, too. So I've stopped working as much, and I've added more fun into my life because I deserve it too.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: I've also had to do. This is so fascinating for me, too, because say it out loud always sounds so bad, but I had to actually get to a point where I went. Oh, I have fucked up all the roles in my life in this lifetime there was times where with my husband?
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: I've like. Oh, we made a pact this time that I'd be the wife, and he'd be the husband should be the other way around.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: and I'm like, Oh, we've messed that up.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: I had a very unhealthy, codependent relationship with my brother was born 15 years younger than me. My sister, born 19 years younger than me. I am their mom. Oh, in this lifetime, we decided, let's just be sister and brother, but I fucked it up. I'm trying to do both
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: same with my mom. I'm like, Oh, we decided that this time I'll be the daughter you be the mom. No, I fucked it up. I'm trying to do both of those things at the same time. So the the work I've been doing this year is to untangle those, and to go.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: I'm your sister.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: I'm your daughter, I am your mom. I am your wife.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: and to be like no, no, no, don't do all of the things and cut all the cords. And it's being very liberating.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: It's been painful, too. So I've lost some relationships.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: A nice.
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Eloise Tomkins: Wow, that's so incredible to hear. And it's really interesting. You know what I love about these conversations on the podcast. Is that
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Eloise Tomkins: we talk about money yet. It's never about money.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: It's not about money at all.
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Eloise Tomkins: Like, you know, I just kind of want to reflect that back. And I just also want to touch on. You know you said earlier that it's not relatable that you have the money to go and buy these classic vintage cars.
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Eloise Tomkins: Sure not. Everyone can go and do that. But I just want to go back and touch on that, because
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Eloise Tomkins: the point is like, and I know you said it. But the point isn't about the object. It's not about the cars it's about. And and yes, there's privilege to that, right? Like having money certainly comes with privilege, and at the same time it also doesn't matter what it is. Those patterns that you've kind of identified
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Eloise Tomkins: replay out with objects with the car, with the couches. Although I'm sure the space looked incredible. Afterwards it would have looked brilliant, and then.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: Yeah.
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Eloise Tomkins: Also in relationships. So you've got
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Eloise Tomkins: the material things you've got, the relational dynamics that it plays out with, which
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Eloise Tomkins: then I'll come back to like money. And and as you've been speaking, Denise, like all I can keep thinking is that in a child.
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Eloise Tomkins: and I have this deep sense of this inner child, just desperately wanting to get her needs met in some way, shape or form, overcompensating.
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Eloise Tomkins: A need that wasn't met, changing, not changing, but creating, perhaps, or engaging in relational roles that you look at now and go. Oh, that wasn't what my role was meant to be, but that inner child didn't know that needed to create that role so that there was love, approval, acceptance belonging, and it was the only thing that you knew. And of course, when you start to shift these things and
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Eloise Tomkins: and work on your relationship with money as well, like all of these different things change. And
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Eloise Tomkins: I'm curious like, when
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Eloise Tomkins: how has it? How has well, one? How have you worked on your relationship with money, because I know that for you you talk a lot about affirmations, I have to say affirmations. And me. I have a bit of a love, hate relationship with affirmations, because.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: Yeah.
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Eloise Tomkins: So I'm curious on your perspective, mainly because I, when we say affirmations and our body doesn't believe that they're true, like, I could stand in front of the mirror and be like I deserve wealth.
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Eloise Tomkins: and if my body doesn't believe it, and it's stretched too far out of my capacity, my nervous system's capacity.
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Eloise Tomkins: It's gonna feel out of sync. But I could.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: Silly.
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Eloise Tomkins: So. Yeah, anyway. Sorry. I've kind of gone on a little bit of a tangent there, but I guess I'm curious about your to heal your relationship with money because you don't just get to shifting these dynamics with family there, there's work that's done because I've never seen people that just automatically have these realizations really.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: Yes, I think
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: What I see in a lot of people is that they think there's me. I'm the flawed version of myself, and then it's this perfect version myself, and that's the version that deserves the money, and or I have to fix everything, and then I'll be deserving of the money, and I think
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: the reason why I share all this flawed stuff is because it you're just going to be you in this flawed journey, and there's no like final destination. You can make money as a complete mess, and you can make money as a healed person and anything in between. So I've always used affirmations as a pattern interrupter. Because I think because I've got such a busy Adhd mind. There's always something going on in my brain anyway, whether it's a song.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: It's just like there's always just a Hamilton soundtrack going on in my brain.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: And so if I can try and control that a little bit and replace it with something as a to use as a pattern interrupter. So I've used them as like shifts.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: but also sometimes as north stars. And so a good example of a North Star affirmation for me that changed a lot of things for me 2 years ago is all my projects are profitable.
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Eloise Tomkins: Hmm.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: And what happened is all the places where they were not profitable started to be very apparent.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: So it became a north star that really shifted a lot of things for me. I might use affirmations like at the start of my business. When I was feeling very shy about showing up, I had. My face is my fortune.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: my face is my fortune, and it just gave me a little bit of courage sometimes, then, to post on social media to shop, to do videos and to take photos and things like that. When I was struggling with boundaries, with my clients, my affirmation was, I serve, I deserve.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: And so none of these were like the. I am wealthy. I am wealthy, you know. I'm rich, whatever, because that didn't feel in alignment for me
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: one that had money in it, though that was a very good one for me is that I would look in the mirror and say, This is what a wealthy woman looks like.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: and I needed to do that to uncover
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: all the places where I didn't believe that was true. And I think this is a powerful one for anyone, because it's okay to have the negative thoughts that pop up. That's actually the that's the gold, right? Because I started to go. No, no, no, that's you. Do not look like a wealthy person, so therefore you do not deserve wealth, and the more you say it, and actually it's better to do it on your really like feral days
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: than when you're looking good, because when you're looking good, that is part of that thing of like. Oh, I'm only deserving of it when I, you know, have my hair done, and all that kind of stuff, or when I, at my ideal weight, and especially for women, is so much in there around deserving of money and weight.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: There's so many layers to that
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: and I could speak to that, even from a kid of like food. Insecurity, too, about how, then
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: becomes then a
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: like, I've got it. I have to consume it right now, before someone else can take it away from me. I have to store it. There's a lot of safety stuff, obviously, but like, actually, if you look in the mirror when you're at your most feral. And to be like this is what a wealthy woman looks like.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: It does start to shift things in your brain because you can go well, why not? Why not me? And you decouple it from some of those things that you think like that are weight or looks related? Because if you go look at the richest men in the world, they all different.
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Eloise Tomkins: Some of the.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: Skinny, fat, short, tall, old, young, good looking, not good looking. They're allowed to be very diverse.
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Eloise Tomkins: Hmm.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: So many of us have a very narrow, very, very narrow idea of what a wealthy woman
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: should look like. And so then, if you allow yourself to have that conversation in a mirror.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: and then you can go. Okay. Well, I need to obviously see more examples of people who look like me, or who have a similar situation to me.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: because we've all got our own exceptions. Right? We go. Yes, but I'm a single mom, so I can't do it, or yes, but I have an accent, so I can't do it. Yes, but I'm sure. Yes, but I'm overweight. Yes, but I'm old. Yes, but I'm young and you have to go. Then seek out those examples, or just to be like, Okay, well, if I'm going to be the first, st I could be the first, st and that sounds like all easier said than done. But there is something there about just going.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: This is what a wealthy woman looks like, and then the more qualifiers you can put on there the better. So you can be like. This is what a wealthy Adhd woman looks like. This is what a wealthy, queer woman looks like. This is what a wealthy black woman looks like, and then
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: it can really help. I I think it's a it's a powerful one. I started saying that way before I had money, by the way.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: And just any little patent interrupters. So there was one that Mark and I. He's my husband. We've been together since we were really young, and so we were super broke together. We would say, Lucky we're rich.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: and it would be like, you know. I got a flat tire.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: and it'd be like lucky we're rich, and we use that now. And it's funny, right? Because then it's a perspective thing of going. Oh, my God! Like that is not a huge thing, but our nervous system sometimes still feels that way right of going. Oh, my God! I'm never going to financially recover from this, because I put the air conditioning on
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: like my brain goes there all the time of like, oh, my God! I'm using the dryer.
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Eloise Tomkins: Yeah.
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Eloise Tomkins: yeah. And it's Oh, my, gosh, that's so funny, like, it makes me laugh like, I can just imagine, you know, sitting in this like rickety old car. Lucky we're rich to now, having like the wealth, and you know oh, gosh! That's just yeah. Funny. But I do love that. And you know.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: But we are rich. That's the thing, too. I think that is that thing, too, of going. The fact that we're sitting here talking in comparison to the planet
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: by unimaginable wealth.
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Eloise Tomkins: Hmm.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: And we do forget that sometimes, too. And so that is a bit of a pattern interrupter for me of going like at any stage. You can just go. Oh, my God! Like I'm so wealthy, even if I don't feel like it
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: at the moment, and I'm not where I need to be. And I have, you know, real
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: issues I have to deal with, but
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: it still is a perspective thing.
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Eloise Tomkins: And
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Eloise Tomkins: the privilege that comes with wealth like you can acknowledge that. But also right, like there are still issues that people face. And like I. It's really interesting. Because I remember, like I've worked, I was saying off air like working with people in like below the poverty line and then working with people.
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Eloise Tomkins: with wealth and holy Moly. The the issues were, I mean, obviously, financially, they were different. But lifewise there was a lot going on, regardless of the circumstances.
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Eloise Tomkins: and I think we forget that, like we see money as this Savior money
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Eloise Tomkins: me when in reality it doesn't it? You're still a human, and I really get angry when people make comments like, I love Paris. Hilton. She, I think, is very intelligent, very smart, very
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Eloise Tomkins: business minded, and people are like, oh, like when her house burnt down in the fires.
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Eloise Tomkins: Oh, well, you know, it's parasol, and she can just like she's got money. She can have another one, I'm like, well.
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Eloise Tomkins: but that was her house like that was her home, just because she's got I don't even know how much money like billions. She's still a human with feelings. And you know all of this stuff. Money doesn't take away from someone else's human experience, and I think there's so much
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Eloise Tomkins: shame and
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Eloise Tomkins: stigma around wealth, and it's not a bad thing, you know, and I don't know. It actually really frustrates me. When people see wealth as a bad thing, because you can do so much good with money. You've retired, your mum, your mother-in-law, you know, and there's so much other goods. You've helped hundreds of thousands of people across the world with their relationship with money. How is that? Not a good thing? And
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Eloise Tomkins: so what you should do that? And then what? $60,000 a year, where you can barely put a roof over your head, and you're paying someone else's mortgage just so that you don't come across as, too. I'm going to go on a rant if I keep talking about this, but it does. It makes me angry. So. I love that you can kind of sit there and go. You know what? Yeah, I am wealthy. Yeah, I'm also a human that has real human problems
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Eloise Tomkins: because you can be both, and you're allowed to be both, and you're allowed to want to be wealthy, and you're allowed, even though you are wealthy. I love that you're like. You know what I actually still want more. There's more in me. There's more in my tank. There's more goals that I have, and fuck it. I'm owning that.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: Oh, yes, God! There's so much in there, so
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: There is that whole privileged conversation for sure, right?
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: And again.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: more money can sometimes amplify those. So just before we hit record, I said, some of my issues that I had to deal with didn't even come up until I'd made money. There was no bandwidth.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: there was no bandwidth for them. I had just to work. I just had to get up and just work again and work again and work again and make more money. But then I kind of got to a point where I was like, oh, look at me! I've broken the cycle because I've made money
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: and oh, God, that's so funny when that happens. So the way that my family has coped with with stuff I see if we've all gone in slightly different directions. One of my family members drugs.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: That's that's what that's how he's used to cope. And I was like, oh, I don't have drugs. Work was my drug.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: Overwork, was my drug feeling responsibility for other people controlling people with money is my drug. My my younger sister. She became a social worker.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: And yeah, and she luckily she just recently left that because it was re triggering for her every single day. But she felt so guilty because she was like all these kids that are out there, and I have to be the one
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: to fix it and to save them, and she finally got to the stage where she's like this is not healthy for me. She's still working in like the charity sector, but she's not punishing herself every day with that same with animals. She was collecting animals. I see that from people, too, and
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: there will be. That's where again you have to accept that humanity of going
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: like I'll be a mess with or without money.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: like I'll be nice with or without money, and that's why I kind of. Try and teach our kids, too, to say, yes, we have privilege, and we have money. Money doesn't make you a good person, and it doesn't make you a bad person, you know, so we can choose what we do with our money. And sometimes I think, too, I have to be way more intentional with money than my mom was, because it was very easy for her to say, we don't have the money. You don't get it like you don't have it, not saying her life was easier, but she was. She didn't have to have conversations with money about us, because it was like, just
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: cut off. You don't. There's none. And with my kids I'm like, Oh, my God, I there's gonna be ways that I absolutely spoil them, and they won't have that experience of
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: I see it sometimes, even just around food, right? It's like
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: they don't feel like they have to finish things.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: And I'm like, but I'm
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: I don't want them to feel like they have to, either, you know, they there's definitely privilege sometimes in like, Oh, I just want some more art supplies.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: and I'm like, I have to find that balance of going. Okay. Well, go and have a look in the recycling bin and make some art out of that, too.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: and try not to shame them for desires, but also giving them
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: I don't know, giving them space to not all, also to solve problems with money, because I've I've done that, too.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: rather than having awkward conversations. Sorry, go on.
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Eloise Tomkins: No, no, it's it's interesting, though, because, like what I hear from that is, you don't have a blueprint for money. You.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: You are.
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Eloise Tomkins: You do actually sorry. Let me rephrase that your money was. We don't have any.
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Eloise Tomkins: and you're the 1st person in your family that has made money, but you also don't have this nervous system blueprint of. Well, okay. Now that I have money, what do I do with it? And it's not that having the money is now easier.
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Eloise Tomkins: and because now you're having to create a new inner blueprint all the time with you like your own self and your own nervous system. But then also, like, Well, hang on a minute.
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Eloise Tomkins: How is this impacting my kids? And I see this so much like the conversations that I have with people who kind of had came from not having a lot of money in their own childhood, and then like, well, now, my kids just expect that we're going to go to the Theme parks all the time, because we've got the money, and it's like, Well, hang on a minute. I didn't have that when I was a kid. But so what? What's okay for them? And there's this real inner conflict. So.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: Yeah.
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Eloise Tomkins: It's really interesting.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: It is because I'm like, I'm still healing.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: And I'm trying to like raise these kids at the same time. Where I've come to around. This is
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: What I dreamed about as a kid is stability.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: And I think for a while I thought the money creates the stability, but it it didn't really. And also I took it a bit too far, and became a bit bit, too, of a workaholic
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: And so I've literally changed so many things in my life. I've sold our big house. I'm in the process of selling my farm as well.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: We've moved to the suburbs. This school is 5 min away. It's public school, and that's important to us as well.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: Because again, it's like, I don't want to create so much wealth for them that they can't sustain it, because we don't know how to sustain it as a generation. Right? So it's almost like taking things down a little bit to be like, Okay, we've got a nice house, but it's in, you know, a normal suburb.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: I want them to have normal friends. Willow is going to high school next year. She's smart enough to go to any school we can afford, but we want to send her to a
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: like the local public school because we want to try, and
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: rather than the legacy be money like, how can we create a legacy of a bit more nervous system regulation? And I probably will fuck it up.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: you know, for them, too. But I don't think extremes is gonna help either. And actually, I've I've come to the point where I'm like, I don't feel like I'm that ambitious anymore. And I'm not that ambitious for them.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: because I've seen people who I love, who are like they had the most boring childhood. They lived in the same house their whole life.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: and they've just like had gotten a normal job. And they're so happy. And I'm like, I don't want to
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: create like that hunger in the kids to see. Oh, you have to be world beaters. I'm like I can't.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: Did some really big stuff.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: How can my legacy be just like
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: normal people? So I'm like, I don't worry about like my husband gets a bit more Taipei. He's got his own stuff he is trying to prove. But, like, you know, I have to do the homework I'm like, oh, they'll be fine like I don't care, you know. They'll they'll do well like
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: they excel and stuff. But I see really fascinating stuff with them. They're like, Oh, Dad, I've got my Duolingo streak. We're not forcing them to do that willow saying, Oh, can I show you I've mapped out my 5 books of my fantasy series? Can I tell you about the characters and what their names are and stuff. I'm not forcing her to do that. And so I had this story of like, oh, my creativity is born out of like hardship.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: I'm like no! Imagine what I could have created. Having some bloody stability in my life. I could have created heaps more. And so they're the test for that. Right? I'm like, I'm just leaving them alone and trying not to like
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: fuck anything up because I'm dealing my own stuff. I'm like, I'm just gonna feed them, try and create.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: Try not to fuck them up.
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Eloise Tomkins: And you've got enough money to pay for therapy for them when they're older. So it's all good, you know. I always say to people parents will say to like, Oh, I think I'm worried. I'm going to fuck my kids up. I'm like, Yeah, you probably are. That's okay. Put some money aside for therapy, and just hand it to them on their 18th birthday. And you're good.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: Literally said that to them recently, I was like, you can talk about that. And, Sarah, because I like.
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Eloise Tomkins: Yeah.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: Said that you hate children. I was like, we're all laughing about it. I was like, I kind of do hate children. Those are all right sometimes, you know.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: But I'm like that is the thing. We don't know what issues. They're gonna create like and have. So I'm like, I'm just gonna live my own life, try and create some semblance of safety and stuff for them. I'm not. I'm honestly not worrying about it too much. By the way, too. This is definitely a privilege thing, but one of my kids has very full on Adhd, and the amount of money we throw at this, it doesn't even touch it.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: And so anyone out there who's thinking, Oh, God! It's the lack of money that I'm I feel guilty that I can't spend. It actually doesn't make it that much of a difference. And I that sounds so privileged, I'm like, you know, when people go. Oh, it's the diet. Change the diet. Oh, it's the special supplements! Oh, it's the ot every week. Oh, it's the thing! None of it sticks. It's bloody hard. There's no amount of money I can throw at parenting. That's making it like easier beyond a certain point. Does that make sense? I know that sounds really privileged, but.
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Eloise Tomkins: And you know what.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: It doesn't. It's hell!
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Eloise Tomkins: Do you know what I really? And it's not you, but like it's, it's the systemic view of money I hate that you feel, or people feel the need to acknowledge the privilege that really shits me as well, because, like
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Eloise Tomkins: I get it. But at the same time it just reinforces that we should feel guilt about money, or maybe not guilt, but like we should, we should disclaimer, or we should not make the person who's not making the money feel bad, or we should, you know, justify it or soften it in some way. And I get it like, because you know, how dare we upset someone's feelings.
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Eloise Tomkins: That's not our responsibility.
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Eloise Tomkins: And like, I don't know, I
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Eloise Tomkins: like I get it. And I would do the exact same thing right, because, you know I'm also oh, well, the privilege! And Yada Yada Yada! But like at what point do we just need to be like? You know what this is? My life. I didn't have it easy. You don't know my whole story. You don't know the challenges that I went through, and to you it may look like my life is easy. It was luck, or I'm so successful. But what you don't know is behind the scenes. I'm raising kids that's fucking tough.
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Eloise Tomkins: I'm having my own patterns that are replaying out that are causing me difficulties in certain ways. And this is what I mean, that yeah, money affords you privilege in a financial sense.
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Eloise Tomkins: but it doesn't take away humanity. And oh, my gosh! I wish I could share this story, but I can't, because it's a psychology client. And but it is just such an example that hardship doesn't come
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Eloise Tomkins: like money doesn't reduce the hardship, and out of everything. That's kind of what I'm taking away personally from this podcast episode is that
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Eloise Tomkins: money amplifies who you already are. It amplifies what's already going on. It helps in certain ways. It allows you to have certain luxuries and to not worry about certain things in terms of you know you can go to the shops and afford to buy cherries without looking at the price of them. But it also comes with other challenges, too. It's not the be all and end all. So I really love
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Eloise Tomkins: hearing your experience with it. Thank you so much for sharing.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: No.
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Eloise Tomkins: I'm my!
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Eloise Tomkins: It's just. I'm like I could keep talking to you for
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Eloise Tomkins: such a long time, just to dive even deeper. But
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Eloise Tomkins: I know, you also run a money boot camp. How can people like if they've been listening to you on the podcast. And they don't know who you are or even if they do.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: Yeah.
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Eloise Tomkins: People listening will know who you are. How can they reach out and find you? How can they connect with you? I'll put the info in my show notes. But tell us a little bit more about the best ways for people to reach out to you.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: Yeah. So I think a really great starting point is to come and follow me on social media. So Instagram is a great place to start. I'm at Denise, Dt. Super easy to find and just getting that conversation, because obviously I have a lot of prompts and content just to get people starting to think about things in a different way.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: The next starting point, I think, too, would be reading one of my books, and you can listen to them as well. If you don't like reading, I do the audio myself, so get rich. Lucky bitch is a really great starting point, just talking, thinking about money blocks, and even if you don't think you have any, a lot of people go. Oh, there's more.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: And I'm like, I'm like that every day I'm like, oh, there's always more. I got so much out of it, even listening to you, Eloise. And then money. Boot camp is, is a great like community, and a place to sort of
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: immerse yourself in that conversation on a daily basis, because we have a beautiful community at the end of the month we do 2 live calls, and we we always find a new place
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: to talk about these things from like one time we we did a whole call and pocket money.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: and like the lessons from pocket money. Really the whole?
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: No, just in general. What's your relationship with pocket money? And how is it impacting your life today? Like we just.
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Eloise Tomkins: Oh, interesting!
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: Oh, there's a whole deep dive in that we talked about weddings one time of like, what's your relationship with love and money? And you know, being the bridesmaid, always the bridesmaid, never the bride like there was so many interesting lessons in that. So we use those live calls to kind of come together and to do some excavation work. But that's what the daily community is as well. So there's obviously tools that you can learn and find different nuances. But it's just being that community and conversation around like.
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Eloise Tomkins: Hmm.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: Especially if you're a curious person to hear other people's stories and see how it relates or how it's different to yours. It really expands your brain as to what's possible. But just being in this conversation, where money is just a thing that we're allowed to talk about is really powerful, too, so you can join at any time, and it's denisedt.com slash bootcamp. You can find out all the info, and there's people from all around the world, every profession.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: And what's great in there, too, is there's no hierarchy of like more money is better than someone who's just starting out, because we know that the mindset lessons are literally the same, whether you're making your 1st dollar or you're making your 1 million. We're all at that beginner mindset of curiosity and.
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Eloise Tomkins: To, the.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: Actual money of it doesn't even come into play because it's it's literally the same every time.
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Eloise Tomkins: I've definitely heard people speak about Boot Camp. I know I can't remember who it was, but I know some a few people who have gone through it and done it. They've loved it. So it sounds like an amazing program. Denise cannot thank you enough for being so open and sharing your journey with us, and I've loved every second of it. So thank you again.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: Oh, thanks, Mickey, we're asking such great questions. And yeah, it was really some.
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Eloise Tomkins: Working on.
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Denise Duffield-Thomas: That's absolutely thank you for that. And for providing this platform, I really appreciate you having me on.
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Eloise Tomkins: All right. Thanks, and everyone else. I'll see you next week. Until then. Take care.
