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Eloise Tomkins: Hello and welcome to another episode of the rich woman rising. Podcast I'm your host, Eloise Tompkins, and I love to help you regulate your nervous system so that you can make more money, hold more money and let go of the fear. And today I am so excited that I am joined with Phoebe Walpool, and I don't think I've said your surname correctly, so I'm going to get you to help me say that again shortly.
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Best Life Phoebee: That's fun!
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Eloise Tomkins: I was asking how to say that, and I'm like Crap. I've forgotten how to say it, but Phoebe is a business and mindset coach, and she loves to help women to make money by being themselves. And she does that through helping them really activate their leadership and step into spicy content online, which I think is really cool, because I think it can be really hard for women to step into being themselves. And we
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Eloise Tomkins: one of the reasons that I invited Phoebe on is because we have this shared view, I guess, of authenticity, and helping women to step into their most confident selves, but also above and beyond that. One of the reasons that I did want to also have Phoebe on the show is that.
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Eloise Tomkins: And we're talking about this off air
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Eloise Tomkins: money. We don't always come from money, but we get to create our financial future. And the way that we want to live our lives. And Phoebe is a really great example of that. So I really want to be able to have her share her story so that we can learn that our past doesn't always define us. So, Phoebe, I'm going to leave it to you just for a second, to tell, to get you to tell us a little bit about yourself, and to correct me on how I
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Best Life Phoebee: Say your last name
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Eloise Tomkins: Again.
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Best Life Phoebee: Hi, everybody! I'm Phoebe Walpole. It's actually my new last name as well, because I just got married and inherited it. So I'm not even used to saying it, either.
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Best Life Phoebee: But yeah, I'm a business and mindset coach. I really love to help women with a lot of like the basic strategy, like making sure that we're really running our business with strong foundations that are sustainable and scalable. I think often when women pop up online with big business dreams. They don't really know any of those things, and we kind of fluff around trying to get away without them. But I think that if we
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Best Life Phoebee: have these big dreams for making big money. Then, like the earlier we get into our foundations and actually lay them the better, and things move faster. And then I'm just very passionate about the human side, like the female side of running a business. Like all the emotions we have, all of the things that we have to move through the fear of being seen, the fear of being too much. You know the judgment, all those sorts of things, like
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Best Life Phoebee: most of the women who I work with are, you know, operating in fields where they are coaching, or leading, or holding space, or supporting other women, and being strong in, I suppose, almost like
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Best Life Phoebee: calling people out on their bullshit, letting people know that. You see, when they're like playing smaller or not doing what they are meant for, and what they say that they want like. That's such powerful leadership, and so important that we have those honest conversations and love ourselves enough to hear them and handle them. So helping women like really own that expression and own that power and leadership and authority.
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Best Life Phoebee: and hold themselves to those standards as well, just makes my makes my little heart happy.
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Eloise Tomkins: I love that so much. And yeah, we really do need that, don't we? Because I think that like it reminds me, actually like posted something on Linkedin recently that just absolutely blew up like I've had so many people comment and long story short, my neighbor upstairs, asshole man, came and knocked on my door at like 11 o'clock at night, telling me that my dog was too loud for barking too much, and I posted something to that effect on Linkedin, and
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Eloise Tomkins: a woman commented on my post and was like, Oh, I'm really sorry that your neighbor did that, and I was like, I'm really grateful for the sentiment, however, not your job to apologize for a man that you don't even know, and she was like, Oh, my goodness, thank you for calling me out on that. I'm like you are so welcome, my friend, you are so welcome. So I hear you on
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Eloise Tomkins: calling people out on things that sometimes we don't even have those like we've got our own blind spots right and
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Best Life Phoebee: With love like how you did. You were like this. I want this woman to see herself in her value and her power. I know she's not, you know, doesn't owe these apologies to anyone like you didn't call her out to be like, Hey, lady, you're dumb. You call her out to be like, hey, like I see you higher than this, and I see I know that you are better than this, and deserve better than this, and that's such a powerful like.
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Best Life Phoebee: Oh, it's just filled with love, like there's no ickiness in it. All the things that we associate with it, like people are. Gonna think I mean, people are gonna think I'm a bitch. People don't think that I don't like them, or I'm gonna upset them, or whatever it's like. If it's just fueled by love and seeing people like the best that you can see them like. Oh, the best way to move and activate people
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Eloise Tomkins: 100%. But I also think regulation comes into that, you know, like
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Eloise Tomkins: your nervous system, because if I can't regulate my nervous system, if she couldn't regulate her nervous system. That's where I think
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Eloise Tomkins: discrepancy or not discrepancy. But you know that
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Best Life Phoebee: Misunderstandings, and
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Eloise Tomkins: Yeah.
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Eloise Tomkins: And I guess I'm curious, like, you know, leading into that like, because I see this version of you right now, as somebody who does have that, like authentic leadership, who is able to lovingly call people out when they need to be? Has it always been that way for you? Or is that something that you had to
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Eloise Tomkins: build up to
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Best Life Phoebee: I definitely feel like in the outside world. In my content, I really had to build into it. I realized.
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Best Life Phoebee: like quite early in my coaching experiences, and really I've been a coach for a long time before this business, like I ran a gym for many years, and as a personal trainer before that. So I've been helping people in that way for a long time, and I've always like, been quite direct and honest with them, but I always felt like. It was just so cool that I had this relationship with people where they felt safe enough and loved by me, that I could say almost anything to them
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Best Life Phoebee: that was honest and sometimes painful, and sometimes like the things you didn't want to hear, and they were able to just receive it because of, you know. And now I understand, like the co-regulation of that relationship, the safety that we built, the the tools that we'd already kind of worked together on in regulating nervous systems and feeling safe in this place, and believing in yourself enough that you can hear
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Best Life Phoebee: those that kind of feedback, and and and know that there's no negativity behind it, I suppose. Like, you know, if someone on the street pops out and says, Hey, your business shit and your content sucks like.
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Best Life Phoebee: Well, I'm probably going to be on the defense. But you know, if if my coach, who I'm safe with and I know, believes in me so deeply, and has such a huge heart, and always moves with like my best interests and all that sort of stuff. When she says it to me like I can just receive that with such an open heart, and just reflect on myself. And truly like, take that feedback and grow as opposed to being anything
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Best Life Phoebee: yeah, negative. And so I have had to grow into that in my online presence and in my content to feel confident that I can do that, and then I can hold that position where, through my messaging, I'm able to both create that safety and that evidence of love. And like. I would never say this to you to hurt you. I'm saying this because I just see your power. I see how much more is in you. I see how beautiful it is. I see how good it is. I see how good you are at what you do. And so I've actually
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Best Life Phoebee: feel like, now I've started to really nail this this messaging where I'm able to deliver hard messages sometimes with so much love that even from the other side of the screen people are able to receive it, and I know not. Everyone is not. Everyone's ready. And and you know, when something goes viral or something like that, people don't know your heart. They don't know
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Eloise Tomkins: Yeah.
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Best Life Phoebee: From. They haven't felt that love. They haven't felt that safety like there is that risk of like, we're gonna trigger things in them. But it's also like something I've had to grow into is understanding that that's not my responsibility. And me watering that down or making that less is actually not helping anyone. It's just in some ways like just letting people stay in their triggers and say, Oh, that's good enough, like it's your fault that I'm triggered, instead of
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Best Life Phoebee: what, in what in me is causing this feeling and experience
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Eloise Tomkins: I love that, and that's so. Something that I certainly do a lot with my clients as well, you know, like what's mine? What's theirs?
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Best Life Phoebee: Oh!
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Eloise Tomkins: I think like when it comes to money as well like. It's something that I see a lot, particularly with women, and I don't know how your experience of this is. But when we have these big dreams, these big money goals, these big life goals.
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Eloise Tomkins: And then we think, Oh, my gosh! But what are other people going to think like? It's wild, but I feel like we could dive into like massive rabbit holes. But I really want to come back to. I guess your money story like.
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Eloise Tomkins: where did where did your money story begin like? If you kind of had to look back? What was little Phoebe. What was it like for little Phoebe? And how did you get to where you are today?
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Best Life Phoebee: Oh, my! Gosh! What a ride!
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Eloise Tomkins: Question. I know
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Best Life Phoebee: Yeah. So my parents separated when I was quite young, when I was like 2 years old, and I had. There was lots of rough parts about my childhood. The beauty is sometimes that you're a kid, and you don't totally remember how wild it is. It's almost like sometimes, as an adult. I'm like reflecting on these memories. Being like that was crazy like you would
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Eloise Tomkins: That's like.
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Best Life Phoebee: To be in those situations. But as a kid you just are living your little life, and that is what it is. That's what you know. So my mom had like a lot of drug problems when we were young. And
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Best Life Phoebee: so there was a long period of time when my dad took custody of us, and we lived there and like, you know, your mom like you, you love your mom, no matter what. And we didn't understand any of that situation at the time. So I'm sure that was like the hardest thing ever for my dad, because we were just like Mom, Mom, where's Mom? We want to be with Mom like that kind of thing. And you know my parents on that side, my dad and my stepmom were just always trying to protect us and be like.
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Best Life Phoebee: you know, everything's fine. We just have to stay here. And we got to an age where, finally, like, I don't know my brother and I must have just been old enough and annoying enough that we were like, we want to live with Mom. We want to live with Mom, and my parents are like fine. You can go. We'll be here if you want to come back, but you can go. And so I lived with my mom for like quite a long time.
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Best Life Phoebee: And in that situation our money situation was just like, yeah, pretty horrendous we were. My mom didn't work. She had 4 kids in the house at that time. Domestic abuse relationships like just a lot of all the icky and
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Eloise Tomkins: Classic thing.
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Best Life Phoebee: That cause, you know, a lot of money problems and typically are associated. So we lived a lot on like
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Best Life Phoebee: 2 min noodles. A lot of Domino's pizza.
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Best Life Phoebee: like all those things. And like, I just yeah, so young, it just was always the story of there's never enough money
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Eloise Tomkins: Yeah.
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Best Life Phoebee: And money was so dramatic in our household like just everything came back to money, every situation. We couldn't drive to school because there wasn't enough petrol, we couldn't, you know, go here because we couldn't afford it. We can, you know, just every single things felt like it came back to money. So it's almost like this obsession with money in the household, having none. And then, as I grew older.
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Best Life Phoebee: something that I really found in me like this is something I've had to heal and integrate over my years. It's like I became just very judgy of my mom. Looking back.
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Best Life Phoebee: woman was in a crazy, difficult situation, doing her best, you know she could have done better, but she's doing her best with what she had, but
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Best Life Phoebee: I became very judgy of just like like, why don't we do something about this situation like it doesn't seem that hard to me
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Eloise Tomkins: Hmm.
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Best Life Phoebee: Something about this situation. And now, like there's so much power in that side of me, and I've had to really integrate it to take out the icky judgy and the the hyper, masculine and control side, and everything like that that I grew, because during that time it was like, then I really became the parent of our household.
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Eloise Tomkins: Was trying to
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Best Life Phoebee: Keep everyone together, and like numbing out feelings. All that type of stuff.
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Best Life Phoebee: No.
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Best Life Phoebee: and but I learned how to put my feelings away and just do what needed to be done. Like, no matter how scary something was, no matter how much you might fail, no matter how much you might be judged whatever. If there's a way to make your life better.
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Best Life Phoebee: you fucking, do it like that was the energy in me, and I kind of grew up with this
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Best Life Phoebee: like strange, honestly like drive of probably this drive of being like, I just wanted to be so far away from that situation that I, very early on was like, I can make money. I can make a better situation for myself, and I always will. And so I just really like
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Best Life Phoebee: came out of school and stuff, and was guns blazing like, how do I make money? How do I get enough money? How do I get more money like I was quite obsessed with money, still, like that obsession was there, and it was from. And there was this drive in me that was both very powerful and also very like icky conditioning and convoluted with lots of toxic stuff, too, of just like.
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Best Life Phoebee: yeah, like this drive to be successful, to have a totally different life to where my mom was and where we all were, and create all this success for myself. And so it made me very like.
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Best Life Phoebee: yeah, very go get a very action taker, very driven, very like top of my class, like, you know, all of those
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Best Life Phoebee: all those kinds of things. And so I did like. I started making really good money really early. I always had like multiple jobs. I was always working hard, started businesses at like 18. I've been in business like ever since. But so lots of it was like, yeah, we kind of flipped the switch from having nothing to being obsessed with having everything.
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Best Life Phoebee: And then over the years I've had to like actually go through the trauma healing of like, okay, all of that drive is coming from this terror.
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Best Life Phoebee: ever going back to that place? Right? It's fueled by scarcity, fear like not wanting to be judged and pathetic mess like I thought my mom was at the time, and, you know, wanting to be just like it was almost like a like. Wanted to just prove everybody wrong, that, like
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Eloise Tomkins: Hmm.
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Best Life Phoebee: You're all so stupid. All you have to do is try harder, or work harder or whatever like that. And so yeah, over time I like healed out of a lot of that, realized I probably hadn't felt an emotion for like 20 years, and had to like come out of the avoidance, and the like, hyper independence, and the push, and the intensity, and everything that I had associated with that, and really come back into like
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Best Life Phoebee: like. Why I was doing it. A beautiful thing that I always had was like. I always
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Best Life Phoebee: all of that drive to make more money also came with an equal drive of like to live a good life like it was always clear to me why we were striving for money. It wasn't just to have lots of money it was to have a good life. So I mean, I feel like that's a huge part of like how it became best life. Phoebe, like I was just obsessed with.
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Best Life Phoebee: How do you make your life good? If you see something you don't like in it, you do something about it like that was just the way that I lived my life. And so yeah, just over the next, probably 10 years, I really was able to go through a lot more like healing around that, and learn a lot more about like my scarcity and my wounds, my attachment styles, and all these things that I needed to go through to like release.
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Best Life Phoebee: the negative pressure of it, like the scarcity pressure and the fear pressure, and the like. What if it all falls apart and we go back there. Kind of pressure
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Best Life Phoebee: And let it just flow way more from the like. The the positive parts of it. They're like, you can create any life you want like you can. You know you get to choose. You get to take action in that direction. You are resourceful, you are smart, you are strong, you have value like you get to create anything you want, and you're totally capable of that totally resourceful in that way. So there's so much like
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Best Life Phoebee: beauty and strength and power in the way that I was looking at the world. It just was also attached to a lot of fear and a lot of scarcity, and judgment, and just like a lot of icky wounding and stuff in there. And now, like, you know, I still have. That's probably like my go to right like my go to is that I'm forever healing like a little bit of avoidance pattern that's my go to. If things get a little bit too spicy
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Best Life Phoebee: in the world. I just dip out and and like the scarcity right? So it's like that still comes up for me sometimes. But it's just on such a different
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Eloise Tomkins: Level, one
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Best Life Phoebee: Not. It doesn't feel like I'm fighting for my life every day to run from this past. It's more like, I'm actually just, you know, working towards beautiful things in my life for the fun of it, for the joy of it, for the expansion, for the mission, for the like. Yeah, the happiness, the love like. There's no.
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Best Life Phoebee: there's not all the pressure attached of resting or falling apart, or needing to change my mind, or anything like that. So that's a long version of my story.
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Eloise Tomkins: I love it. I was. I was like, just
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Eloise Tomkins: absorbed like, and I love that so much, and I find it so interesting.
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Eloise Tomkins: Having these conversations with people, because
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Eloise Tomkins: when I hear them and like, I have to say, I feel so privileged in the work that I do, that I get to speak to a lot of women, obviously on the podcast but you know, in that one, on one space as well, where
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Eloise Tomkins: you know, we talk about things that often aren't spoken about, which is why I love talking to people on the podcast because
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Eloise Tomkins: what I want is for women to kind, of hear themselves in other people's stories and to go. Oh, my goodness.
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Eloise Tomkins: I can relate to that! Because when people women hear these stories they can go. Oh, I'm not alone, and
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Eloise Tomkins: It's really interesting, though, because for a lot of people it can feel really validating to know that they're not alone. But then, for some people
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Eloise Tomkins: point to myself. I'm like,
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Best Life Phoebee: And
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Eloise Tomkins: It doesn't matter that your story's similar. You don't get what it was like for me, because my story is so different
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Best Life Phoebee: Hmm.
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Eloise Tomkins: I actually had to do a lot of healing around that. So but I love that
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Eloise Tomkins: reflect, or just the reflections in general and
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Eloise Tomkins: the childhood stuff, because it really does like we generally
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Eloise Tomkins: underestimate how much stuff comes from childhood. I remember working with a client.
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Eloise Tomkins: and I reckon we worked together for about 6 months before she turned around and said to me, Ellie, I was really skeptical when we 1st started working together about this inner child. Rubbish she's like. But now she's like Holy Moly. I get it, and I can't believe how
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Eloise Tomkins: deep these patterns run and how much of what I'm doing today is because of old patterning. And but it took, you know, with that, like just time to kind of see and develop.
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Eloise Tomkins: stand. And then it was like just a light bulb
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Eloise Tomkins: boom and everything all made sense. And that's when you know change really started to happen. Because if you're not aware of it. You can't change and often we try and focus on well, I want to change something. And but if we don't know why, it's hard to change.
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Eloise Tomkins: And I also love
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Eloise Tomkins: you know, like one of the things you were talking about is that sense of fear.
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Eloise Tomkins: and and how that links to scarcity, and I think those 2 things like fear and scarcity have such a close relationship. What I was kind of curious about, though, is
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Eloise Tomkins: how you were able to pinpoint that you had a money story that needed to be.
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Eloise Tomkins: I don't want to use the word healed, but shifted or yeah, unraveled
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Best Life Phoebee: Yeah, it was like to be honest. It did. It took me a long time to really own that, I think, because, you know, one of one of the gifts that came out of all of that was this like kind of radical responsibility? Where, like, if I saw something in my life. I just did something about it in my life like. And and now, even now, like, that's 1 of my greatest skills is teaching people that like sometimes
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Best Life Phoebee: like there's so much depth, there is trauma. There is subconscious like issues like there's all these things that we should pay attention to and should give love to and should give time to, but also sometimes
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Best Life Phoebee: it doesn't have to be that fucking deep. You see the thought you choose something different. You know. You see the action? That's right for you. It's sticky. It's scary you do it, anyway, like, you know, I feel like there's so much power in that. And that's what I really learned through that time. But because of that.
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Best Life Phoebee: there was definitely a resistance in me of like.
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Best Life Phoebee: you know, almost this belief of like. Well, I'm not holding trauma right? Because I just I've chosen differently. I've gone down this different path. Look at what I've created. It's so different. Blah blah. So I think, yeah, I I'm trying to think what really got me in there. I think it was honestly just like the business, the business world, the coaching world, like business, is the best personal development ever, as we all know, like
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Best Life Phoebee: As you start down that path, you can't unsee all your own shit like it all starts coming up. So I think, going into business so young just started to make me quite aware. And and people in in the business world use more of that language right like
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Eloise Tomkins: Hmm.
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Best Life Phoebee: You know I would I would be like oh, this is going to be my pricing, and like whoever I was, kind of mentoring with whether it was like a formal relationship or just someone around me would be like, well, I think you're like, you know, you're cutting yourself short. You've got limiting belief or like, why do you think that should be the price, you know? Like would start to have those types of conversations with me? And so that started to like, just bring out some of that depth of like. Oh, like sometimes I do see limits there, or I am kind of nervous about that, or how come like.
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Best Life Phoebee: even though my bank accounts always full like, I still freak out about this, or you know, I just start to notice those little things, but probably I don't know how long ago it was probably like
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Best Life Phoebee: 5 7 years ago, something like that. I really went down this path of like manifestation, and I
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Best Life Phoebee: previously had like, hated all of that stuff I like blocked out a lot of my spiritual side for a long time, because my mom was so associated with that, and I'd be like, no, it's none of that belief, bullshit. It's just do the work and make it happen right but like I felt the calling, I knew that there was that side to me, and as I started to like, look into manifestation, it's all about like
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Best Life Phoebee: you want something. You go and you get it, and you ask the universe for it, and you take the action for it and you get it. And I'm like, Oh, that's what I do like. I love that. So I really went down that path, and that really cracked me open into like, you know, understanding that we, we manifest what we believe we manifest. You know what our nervous system is responding to, and things like that. So I started to look
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Best Life Phoebee: deeper into that kind of thing, and, you know, uncovered a lot more of that language and understanding about trauma and everything like that where I was like, Oh, okay, like, these things are a lot more linked and probably a lot more stored in my body than I give credit to, because I just turn those little emotions off and carry on with my brain power like. So that really
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Best Life Phoebee: open that up for me. And that was where, like I really started to set
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Best Life Phoebee: like I'd always set what felt like big goals, but I think they seemed big to other people, but to me it was always where I was really convicted and confident. I I wouldn't stretch myself. I might have been stretching people around me, but I was staying in my comfort zone, and so once I started to tap into that, I started to get more comfortable, stretching myself and saying, You know that I think that was probably back. Then then I said I wanted to have a million dollar year.
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Best Life Phoebee: and when I actually stretched myself, then all the beliefs and everything come up right when you're staying in your comfort zone. Nothing really comes up to bother you. It seems like you can do it. There's no blocks. There's no issues. But when you actually
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Eloise Tomkins: Yes.
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Best Life Phoebee: For bigger and for more. Now it seems very clear where you know, quote unquote blockages might be, because
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Best Life Phoebee: now you suddenly hear all the stories in your head, and all the doubts in your heart, and the way that your heartbeats really fucking fast thinking about it. Or you know you start wondering what people are gonna think and all those sorts of things. So stretching that goal. Yeah.
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Eloise Tomkins: And you can track back. Well, not
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Eloise Tomkins: People in general like, that's exactly what happens. And then they go. Oh, I'm feeling my heart racing. Oh, that's a sign that I need to pull back. And it's like, no.
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Eloise Tomkins: that's just a sign. That's just a communication. It's telling you that you're scared
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Best Life Phoebee: Yes.
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Eloise Tomkins: Just because you're scared, you get a choice as to whether you want to listen to that or not. Yeah, it doesn't
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Best Life Phoebee: Feel comfortable.
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Eloise Tomkins: Cool like emotions. They don't always feel comfortable.
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Eloise Tomkins: My God! The amount of clients like as a psychologist, I if I know I was, gonna say, if I had a million dollars, but that would mean I'd have a million clients, and I know. But
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Eloise Tomkins: know the amount of clients that I've had that have come in and been like, Okay, I just don't want to feel anxious anymore. How do I not do that?
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Eloise Tomkins: And I just sort of sit there, and I would be like.
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Eloise Tomkins: so let me just be very clear with you. That's not gonna happen. You are
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Eloise Tomkins: going to feel anxious in your life. You are going to feel sadness, grief, disappointment, rejection.
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Eloise Tomkins: and you're also going to feel joy, happiness, love.
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Eloise Tomkins: But you can't pick and choose you if you don't. If you want to feel these things, you need to feel them. The unpleasant ones as well, and
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Eloise Tomkins: resignation is just like, Oh, I'm curious, because you were talking about
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Eloise Tomkins: that stretching. I love that that's so true, and that is when things do kind of come out of the woodwork and a lot. And and that's when we do kind of retract back in. And I see this like, it's funny because I'll have a lot of people like people book a discovery call with me, and they're like I'm in. I'm ready to work on my relationship with money
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Eloise Tomkins: because they have a little moment, and then
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Eloise Tomkins: they start thinking about it, and then they retract, and I find it so fascinating like.
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Eloise Tomkins: And I see this with my anxious therapy clients as well, you know, like. Oh, I've been to therapy. I don't want to go back again, because
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Eloise Tomkins: the nervous system goes and reverts back to what is familiar. It will do that. And that's why I think it's so important to bring it out into the conscious awareness, because 95% of what we do is not in our conscious awareness. And I know, and I get what you were saying before, like around.
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Eloise Tomkins: Just do the fucking thing anyway. And I totally get that. And I really do, and and I agree with you on some level. But I think the differentiator is when you can't.
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Eloise Tomkins: even though you want to. Then to me. That's an indicator of okay. Something more is going on here.
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Best Life Phoebee: Bingo!
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Eloise Tomkins: You're getting that that piece where you're getting stuck. And
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Eloise Tomkins: that being said, I'm curious because you've mentioned the avoidance which I think is something that a lot of women will be able to relate to.
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Eloise Tomkins: And it does. It's like this really big protector. And I see this so much like. If I can just numb out, avoid disconnect, go into that freeze response, then I don't have to connect.
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Eloise Tomkins: Body is safe, like there's some sense of safety as a kid
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Best Life Phoebee: And
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Eloise Tomkins: It was a really good strategy. But then you become an adult, and that same strategy is no longer as helpful
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Eloise Tomkins: How have you
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Eloise Tomkins: kind of gotten to know that part of you, and not just gotten to know that part, but become aware of when it's activated.
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Eloise Tomkins: develop strategies around that part. And and how sorry I'm this is like a big question. But also, how is that? Then
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Eloise Tomkins: being able to help you make more money in your business
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Best Life Phoebee: Oh, my gosh! Overcoming!
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Best Life Phoebee: You know as much as I have. So far, my avoidance pattern, just like literally, probably the biggest breakthrough of my life
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Best Life Phoebee: and my business and my money like massive, massive. And the thing with your avoidance is she's so tricksy, and it gets really hard to like until you really learn it and become aware of it. Like it. It is so good at
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Best Life Phoebee: making that option feel the safest right. And like, even with, you know, when my avoidance would kick in. I actually thought for so long that it was such a good thing, because it was like I would be able to shut down these emotions and then just focus and do what needed to be done. Unfortunately, when I was in that state.
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Best Life Phoebee: almost like you were saying before, it's like we can't shut down just some emotions. We shut down every emotions. So when I was shutting down the fear, the doubt, the whatever I was also shutting down the desire, the goals, the like, what I wanted, what would let me up that kind of thing? So it's like
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Eloise Tomkins: Yeah.
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Best Life Phoebee: The same way that my avoidance could save me out of a situation where I was afraid, and I just needed to get something done the same way that it would convince me that, like, you know, I wanted this big goal. But that goal is really uncomfy. So actually.
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Best Life Phoebee: let me put those feelings way and decide. I don't want that big goal. No icky feelings. If I just convince myself I don't want it, or it doesn't matter to me, or I don't care about it, or it's not a big deal, or whatever it is, right. So I never realized for so long how much that was making me dream smaller, put myself in smaller boxes.
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Best Life Phoebee: Run, run away from goals that I had, you know, like I saw that a lot in my money story. I also saw a lot in my health story, which is so funny because I was like running gym and Pt. And everything at the time. But I would often convince myself of things like.
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Best Life Phoebee: you know, I'm not competitive. I don't care about being in the competition, or I don't. You know I don't care about having like the fittest, healthiest, perfect body whatever. But it was actually just me like avoiding the discomfort of like how fucking hard it was sometimes to like, eat the thing instead of just
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Best Life Phoebee: what I, you know, go to the pub and
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Eloise Tomkins: Ate a palmer
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Best Life Phoebee: Yeah, whatever it was that I wanted to do like that wasn't comfy. That was hard. And I because I'd been avoidant for so long like I didn't really know how to handle discomfort. I hadn't trained myself to handle that. And that's all it is like, once you realize, that's all it is, it's practicing
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Eloise Tomkins: Just pop.
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Best Life Phoebee: Holding discomfort, holding the feeling, feeling, the feeling, and it's just feelings like, that's all it was. But I was so uncomfortable with literal feelings that I would run from these goals that I had, and convinced myself, and it convinced myself I didn't care about them, so it didn't feel like I was losing anything, but I was just dampening everything in my life.
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Best Life Phoebee: So when this really all like came to a head for me.
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Best Life Phoebee: I went through a very big, a very big, disgusting year of a healing journey. And
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Best Life Phoebee: what what I learned like a skill that I have learned since then is when I catch myself being avoidant about something, I have to
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Best Life Phoebee: create space for me to sit with that feeling. And it's
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Best Life Phoebee: like nowadays. I'm I'm okay with it. Sometimes it's still gross. I'll be like
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Eloise Tomkins: I mean
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Best Life Phoebee: Fuck me! I hate this feeling like I'm not enjoying it at all like I would so love to run away, or to shut this down, or tell myself it doesn't matter, or whatever like. I still feel that now. But at that time I was like, I,
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Best Life Phoebee: long story short, had fucked up a bunch of stuff in my past business, and I was just avoiding, you know, blaming it on things outside of me. Blah blah! And at that time I literally had to go through this. I went through this one day, felt like just reckoning day with me, and I did things like.
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Best Life Phoebee: I remember this one day where I printed out the cancellations list from my gym.
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Best Life Phoebee: and I literally made myself sit there and look at them, and just be so honest with myself about what the fuck I was looking at right of like
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Eloise Tomkins: Hmm.
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Best Life Phoebee: And all the stories I've been telling myself in my avoidance, which was like, you know, you're so good at this, and like everybody loves this gym. Everybody wants to stay forever. No one ever leaves blah blah. And then I'm looking at this cancellation list that is telling me the exact opposite, and that we're fucking up somewhere, and we're letting people down. And people aren't enjoying it. They're not sticking around like literally all these things that I did not want to face or hear or feel.
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Best Life Phoebee: and I just sat in it, and it was so painful and so uncomfortable, and I just like bawled my eyes out, felt every feeling
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Best Life Phoebee: like, made myself say the words like this, I know this sounds so brutal, but like it's what I needed to do like, say the words like, people
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Best Life Phoebee: aren't staying at your gym. People don't think this is the best place ever. People like, you know, just these things that I could not admit to myself, and I was just running so much from and then that, like.
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Best Life Phoebee: you know, it's like I was so afraid of knowing all these things, and then, literally, as soon as I faced them, I just was able to pinpoint where the problems were and solve them, and like make the business a hundred times better, and everything was fucking fine, but like actually facing it and holding it and being in it, instead of running from these feelings was all I needed to do, but it was so hard to get myself to do it. But going through that experience, going through that day like seeing it.
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Best Life Phoebee: saying those words to myself, admitting it all
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Best Life Phoebee: like, Yeah, it's just that's all it took. But it was so obvious to me in that moment where I was like. That's all it is. Maybe you're not looking. You're like running from these things. You're avoiding these things so hard that are going to be helpful for you just because you think you can't. You think you can't handle the feeling and look at you right now? Yes, you're bawling your eyes out. Yes, it fucking sucks.
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Best Life Phoebee: But tomorrow you're gonna get you're gonna be back on your boss shit doing what needs to be done, putting things in the right place, making adjustments. Being resourceful like you can handle this. And that was what I needed to see. For myself. It was almost like
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Eloise Tomkins: No.
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Best Life Phoebee: You know, we learn this avoidance as kids where we put shit away because we can't handle it because we can't change it because we can't do anything about it. And now I'm like, you're a fucking adult, and you can do things about it. You can handle it. You can feel it. And I have a really cool story now of like.
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Best Life Phoebee: you know, this is so much. What I teach people now is like all of our leadership, all of the scaling journey like making more money. It's just your ability to hold the discomfort. Hold the what ifs hold it? The like? Hold the big goals, even when you don't fucking, know how, even when it's not working, even when everything's falling apart like, can you stay in that vision in that desire? Can you stay in it? And, like
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Best Life Phoebee: most people, really struggle to, they really can't they do? And when I had my like in December I had a hundred 50 K. Sales month.
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Best Life Phoebee: and on I'd set this goal. I was gonna have a hundred K sales month. It was the 26th of December, and I was at like 30 40 K. Sales 26th of December.
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Best Life Phoebee: I can tell you. Like everything in my body wanted to run away. I
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Eloise Tomkins: Wanted to be like
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Best Life Phoebee: So many stories that sounded like a great idea. They don't sound like fear to me. They're not like, Oh, my God! I'm so scared, I might fail their stories like Phoebe. It's Christmas. Just enjoy the holidays. You're camping right now like you don't need to be posting on social media. Let's just do it in January. No one's in buying mode right now, like we'll focus in January, right? Like all these really good logical reasons why I should bail
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Best Life Phoebee: And I was just catching myself. And I was like, these are very interesting stories, Phoebe and I just said I was like, all this is Phoebe, is you said you wanted a hundred K. All I want to see myself do right now is, stay with that fucking goal. Stay in that vision. If you fail, it'll suck. It'll hurt. It'll be embarrassing. Told everyone you're gonna do. It didn't do it. It'll be shitty
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Best Life Phoebee: then what you're going to get up January first.st You're going to do this shit again, anyway, it's gonna be okay, right? Like all this is is a feeling, this fear, this feeling that cannot hurt you like it actually can't.
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Best Life Phoebee: It's not gonna light you on fire. It's not gonna ruin your life, but that's what it God! That's what it feels
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Eloise Tomkins: Like it, though, doesn't it?
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Best Life Phoebee: And I sat there, and I was like, I am going to hold this goal, and I could live like we talk about lighting on fire. I felt like my body was on fire, like the vibrations in my nervous system of like this is so fucking unsafe like we don't know if it's going to work, we don't know if it's going to work out, might fail in front of everyone might be embarrassed. My blah blah like all these things. And I just was like sitting there with this emotion and being like
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Best Life Phoebee: it's just feeling like. And I could fucking feel it. I can handle it, and I just stayed in it. And I, like, you know, did some nervous system regulation to do a bit of running around and releasing and stuff because the energy was so intense. But I just got it was like, I just got to see it. I was like, Whoa like. That's the feeling that we run so hard from. And I was like, I'm gonna
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Best Life Phoebee: I'm gonna be that person. I'm just gonna show myself. I can stay here. And then I nearly forgot the best part of the story. That's
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Best Life Phoebee: 26th of December only had, like 30 40 k. Of sales. I held in this fucking energy. We did a hundred k. Of sales in like 5 days.
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Best Life Phoebee: I was like, I didn't change anything about my strategy, anything. It was just that I, fucking stayed in it, and I was like holy shit, like I've never had such a juicy piece of evidence, but like I don't know if I can describe that feeling in my body how badly I wanted to run and hide and make the goal smaller and tell myself this story. It didn't matter. I do it later. Don't worry about the timeline, whatever shit to just soothe myself in that moment to not have to feel the feeling.
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Best Life Phoebee: but just staying in it literally like. Imagine if I didn't! How crazy is that so cool
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Eloise Tomkins: It's I love that. And and that's so true on so many levels, you know. And I see this all the time.
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Eloise Tomkins: and what you articulated so beautifully is the stories
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Eloise Tomkins: that we tell ourselves that we don't even realize are the stories that we tell ourselves, because
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Best Life Phoebee: Sounds so good.
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Eloise Tomkins: They sound amazing. And I do it, too, you know. And this is the thing like, and I am. So I want people to know this about me as well. Like, yeah, I'm a psychologist. Yeah, I'm a money coach. Yeah, I still have these fucking stories myself.
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Eloise Tomkins: And I know that I have been to like my coaches, who are like
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Eloise Tomkins: Ellie, so have you noticed? And I'm like, Oh.
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Best Life Phoebee: Don't worry.
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Eloise Tomkins: Like? What have I not
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Best Life Phoebee: Because they are so sneaky, and they are so incredible at
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Eloise Tomkins: Make him
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Best Life Phoebee: Nice
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Eloise Tomkins: Yeah, they are they? That's exactly what they want to do. Your stories, your subconscious, your nervous system. It does not
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Eloise Tomkins: okay
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Eloise Tomkins: about your financial goals. It does not care about you becoming wealthy. It does not care about anything other than
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Eloise Tomkins: is this feeling okay in my body. And when we talk about feeling okay, like you were fine. You were camp. You're having a great time. But the money concept and the goal that you'd set your body was like, oh, this is way too much to not not even the money goal. It's not even so much about the money goal. It's about that sensation in the body, and
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Best Life Phoebee: Hmm.
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Eloise Tomkins: If that sensation in the body feels like it's just too icky, too overwhelming, too uncomfortable. You're right. We want to run from it. We want to not experience it, and we will do. Our subconscious will do whatever it can to move us away from that feeling, and
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Eloise Tomkins: actually love like one of my clients last year was talking about how she was going, wanted to come and work with me. And she sent me an email. And she was like, I'm in.
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Eloise Tomkins: And then the next day she was like, I'm out.
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Eloise Tomkins: And I was like, Yes, we do.
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Eloise Tomkins: And I send her an email. I'm like, okay, like, what's actually going on. And she was like.
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Eloise Tomkins: No, I mean, again, I just like panicked. And I'm like, Yeah, that's completely normal. Because your nervous system's doing its thing, you know, and and I find it just really fascinating, like how our body will just try to do whatever it can to keep us safe. And
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Eloise Tomkins: but I also love that
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Eloise Tomkins: when we give ourselves new evidence to. And and I talk about this a lot in terms of like. I call it micro moments.
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Eloise Tomkins: because.
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Eloise Tomkins: you know, if you think about it like interest, if you put money into a bank and it's accumulating interest, you don't put 10 bucks in and expect to have a million dollars tomorrow.
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Eloise Tomkins: You put 10 bucks in. You keep putting little bits of money in over the course of a number of years, and eventually the interest accumulates, and it's the same with nervous system regulation and our subconscious. We
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Eloise Tomkins: have little micro moments where we do things a little bit differently. We take a breath. We pause before reacting. We give our body a shake. We go run around to release some of the energy so that we're not getting hooked in that story, so that instead of immediately getting cooked, we can
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Eloise Tomkins: build a bit of awareness and go. Oh, yeah, I I know that story feels really logical, but I do know that that's my protection story.
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Best Life Phoebee: Boring.
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Eloise Tomkins: My avoidance story, and then, like when we
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Best Life Phoebee: That's like that story that you just told of that person being like I'm in, and then I'm out, and then I'm in. It's like
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Eloise Tomkins: Yeah.
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Best Life Phoebee: Even just like the most powerful thing that you can do is just recognize when you're making a reactive decision like, is there a lot of emotion in you.
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Eloise Tomkins: Yeah.
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Best Life Phoebee: Making this decision, like all it has to be, is that little pause to see, you know that was a major decision for that that person's business. It's like, are we making major decisions for our business in in that state like that's not like to me. I'm always like that's not us in our leadership. Right? That's that's us in survival mode. So that's not the mode that we want to be making moves into. It's like how
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Best Life Phoebee: how powerful. Just that pause is of just like, Oh, a lot of emotion around me about this like, can I just give it 5 min? Can I take a breather. Can I go for the walk? Can I shake out a little bit, and just see
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Best Life Phoebee: that decision and feeling, and everything is the same? Or is there a little more for me to explore here
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Eloise Tomkins: That's exactly why I create. I have a program. It's called Regulate to Riches, which is like a 28 day program that helps women to learn some of those regulation tools and skills, because
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Best Life Phoebee: So important.
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Eloise Tomkins: It is, and the thing is like, particularly as women. I don't know about you, but I know for me
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Eloise Tomkins: it wasn't something that I was overtly taught I was. I had a different experience where, instead of avoidance, it was more so. I don't know just this really heightened energy like my mom would just be like and then my anxiety would increase like, I remember something about having a loose tooth. And oh, my God! I thought I was gonna die when I had a loose tooth, because everyone around me went like crazy.
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Eloise Tomkins: So I didn't know how to bring myself down when I had big emotions. They all felt like too much, and
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Eloise Tomkins: So regulate to riches has been a program that I've put together. Because
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Eloise Tomkins: if we can't identify that we're in survival mode, if we can't identify the stories that we're starting to tell ourselves. If we don't have the tools to be able to take that pause, it becomes really, really
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Eloise Tomkins: hard to untangle and unravel ourselves from that. So yeah, I love that. I really love it, and I love like hearing your story. Oh, my gosh! There's so much more that I want to unpack like because I love it. I'm like, I feel like there's so many women who will like relate to a lot of the stuff. I mean.
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Eloise Tomkins: whether it's a parent using drugs which is actually it's interesting because I think that
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Eloise Tomkins: a lot of women in business, a lot of high achieving. Women do come from environments where there's air quote trauma.
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Eloise Tomkins: I'm a psychologist, and I love and hate the word trauma, because think sometimes
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Eloise Tomkins: people go. Oh, I haven't had trauma, or they'll be like, Yeah, I've had a bucket load of trauma, and I'm like, trauma just literally means that you know your nervous system flagged as overwhelming, and we've all had that. So
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Best Life Phoebee: Segments.
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Eloise Tomkins: We've all. We've all had that various way shapes and forms. But, I don't know where I was going with that. Sorry. I've kind of lost my train of thought.
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Best Life Phoebee: It is. It's very true. It's like, I find. You know, I have
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Best Life Phoebee: play a lot in like attachment styles and stuff. Find that just so helpful to understand some of our behaviors and things. And it's like so many of the really highly successful people that we come across are very driven by these like conditioned forces right like. And we find that way. You're either you could be wildly successful in a path that you never gave a shit about going down just because your anxiety was so high that you were just trying to prove yourself good enough.
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Best Life Phoebee: you know, or just trying to get the approval of whoever or the other way, where it's like our avoidance is so strong that we're just
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Best Life Phoebee: putting like we haven't felt desire for 30 years. We've just been doing what we thought we should be doing or running from a different feeling or a different reality, and we can create so much like quote unquote success. But that's why so many women are in successful positions with.
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Best Life Phoebee: Oh, God!
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Eloise Tomkins: No satisfaction. No.
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Eloise Tomkins: not just no satisfaction. But, you know, like frigging endometriosis, like, yeah, gut issues, health issues like everything that's like showing even deeper than that. So yeah.
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Eloise Tomkins: that's definitely
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Best Life Phoebee: Just yeah, women in
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Eloise Tomkins: Which all comes from our office
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Best Life Phoebee: Got it
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Eloise Tomkins: Which all comes from our nervous system, you know. And I
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Eloise Tomkins: that's why I'm so like passionate about the nervous system, and I'm like we cannot ignore this. We've got to stop ignoring it, and
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Best Life Phoebee: Hmm.
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Eloise Tomkins: Because, yeah, which I think is something like we could dive into further. But the mind, body gut.
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Eloise Tomkins: there's so much interconnected there, which is, you know, beyond my skill, set in terms of the depth of my knowledge around that. But I know that there's such, and I'm actually excited, for, like where the future is heading with that, because I think
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Eloise Tomkins: the more that we learn about
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Best Life Phoebee: Talk about it. So interesting, isn't
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Eloise Tomkins: Know.
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Best Life Phoebee: And it's and it's so such uncommon knowledge, which just is wild like, I think you know, in in our fields, where we hang out with women tend to be a lot more self aware we're doing research things like that. But in, you know, in the world outside of this, I speak to so many of my friends who are not in business, and sometimes they talk about these things, and I'm like.
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Best Life Phoebee: are we surprised that you have all of these illnesses and situations going on like you're literally working a job. You hate 24, 7. You're doing this. You haven't taken a rest in like 12 months, like, there's just so many things that add up. And and it's just not even on people's radars that, like those 2
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Eloise Tomkins: Minority.
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Eloise Tomkins: It's so wild, it's so true. And yeah, I you know again, why I do the work that I do, because, you know, nervous system important. And I really love and appreciate you sharing so much. Because, like I said, I really feel like people will get so much out of just understanding that it is possible to change, that it doesn't have to be that way forever. And
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Eloise Tomkins: just because and this was something I had to unlearn, just because there's a difficult childhood doesn't mean it has to continue with you forever. You do have more control than you
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Eloise Tomkins: think. But I wanna
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Eloise Tomkins: ask, where can people go and find your spicy content on Instagram? I'm going to put all the details
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Eloise Tomkins: notes for people to go. Have a little bit of a Phoebe stalk. But tell us a little bit a bit more about where they can find you.
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Best Life Phoebee: Yeah, come and find me definitely on Instagram as my home base. So best life, Phoebe, on there, I'm sure that you'll get a link. Yeah. And I have a couple of well, a few juicy programs depending where you're at. We've got the spicy Content Club. If you just want to learn to really express yourself and have that conviction and confidence behind what you're putting out on the Internet and actually make it, you know, entertaining and fun and a good time instead of such a drag
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Best Life Phoebee: that Content feels like for so many people. And then I have my business coaching programs as well. I've got group programs and one to one programs. Just for those really big dreaming ladies who need a little bit of the structure and the strategy with complete understanding and support, for that, the nervous system side and the mindset side that is just so important as well
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Eloise Tomkins: Awesome. I'll pop that info in the show notes. But thank you so much for joining us and sharing your story, and for the rest of you. I will see you all again next week. Until then, take care
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Best Life Phoebee: Bye.