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Eloise Tomkins: Hello and welcome back to another episode of the rich woman arising. Podcast I'm your host, Eloise Tompkins. And I'm a money confidence coach and psychologist. And I love helping women to change their relationship with money from the inside out. And I know, if you've listened to my podcast before, I say this literally for every single guest.
Eloise Tomkins: But I really am. I just truly get so genuinely excited. And I'm so excited today to present Shelly Horton, who is literally the personification of confidence.
Eloise Tomkins: She is a TV journalist, a sought after Mc. Woman's health advocate runs her own company shell shocked Media where she teaches speaker and media training. She runs, speak with impact workshops, and she has had a year career encompassing so many different roles, including years on the ABC. years at Channel, years with Fairfax, and years for et America.
Eloise Tomkins: and in her current year tenure. I can never say that word at Channel She has been a weekly feature on today today. Extra, and one of my favorites is honey.
Eloise Tomkins: She is
Eloise Tomkins: more than a women's health advocate because she speaks up for things that she's really really passionate about, and some things that I think I certainly relate to, and I'm sure that a lot of you listening along will be relating to as well campaigning to Parliament, to destigmatize taboo topics like choosing to be child. Free
Eloise Tomkins: me, too. Bladder leakage, heavy periods and perimenopausal depression. So she is an absolute force to be reckoned with. And, Shelley, I'm so excited to be chatting all things money with you today.
Shelly: I am so excited to talk to you, but also because I'm hoping I can pick your brain and get some of the psychology around my money block. So this is basically free therapy. Okay.
Eloise Tomkins: You're not the st person to say that. So you know. Bring it on, and and we get to share it with the world as well and hopefully drop some insights for other people as well, and I love that. You're going to be so open, and and I know some of your story already, and I can't wait to share that with people, because
Eloise Tomkins: I don't know. I look at you now, and your gorgeous outfit, your gorgeous hair, your gorgeous makeup. If you're not watching this on Youtube, if you're listening to the audio, she's just
Eloise Tomkins: next level, and I'm here in my, you know sparkly pink top, but.
Shelly: You look fantastic.
Eloise Tomkins: So.
Shelly: But I have to let people know if they are watching. This is not how I regularly look. Only an hour ago I had wet hair from the pool, and a Terry toweling cover up on. So I'm doing a shoot this afternoon. So that's why my hair and makeup's done so, please. I thought it was.
Eloise Tomkins: Me shall ye afford?
Eloise Tomkins: I love it, I love it. It just works really well. But let's start like, because you are this absolute dynamo and have so much energy, and there's such a personality and presence to you, and
Eloise Tomkins: so much influence when you speak and when you talk.
Eloise Tomkins: But I know that it hasn't always been that way for you like we were talking earlier, growing up in a small town of like what people.
Shelly: Yeah.
Eloise Tomkins: Awesome.
Shelly: I grew up in Kingaroi, in country Queensland, which is famous for peanuts and Sojo Bijoki Peterson. So that's about it, and the population, included all of the farms, so
Shelly: our town was so small we had no traffic lights and no roundabouts, no Mcdonald's, you know. It was a very small country town, and I think.
Shelly: growing up in a in that sort of environment shapes you for the rest of your life. For a lot of time I was kind of resented that. And now that I'm I'm like what a gift that was to grow up without all of the pressures that
Shelly: teenagers have now, but it certainly did shape my money mindset because Mum and Dad were school teachers, their entire careers. And so there wasn't much money around. But we kind of did a lot of things that didn't cost a lot of money because we lived in the country, and it was like you get outside and play.
Eloise Tomkins: So there was kind of a sense of like you had this awareness of what money was, but there wasn't. And I agree with you. There's so much pressure. I'd hate to be a teenager today.
Shelly: Yeah.
Eloise Tomkins: How did you know in that case, like, if you just went out and did stuff that didn't really cost much, how did you develop that sense, that money is even a thing.
Shelly: I definitely got it from my parents, and my parents are amazing like I look at them and go. How the hell did they provide what they did to us on such a small income. But Mom and Dad did really smart things like, there's this incredible program called a Teacher's Exchange program.
Shelly: and so I was in grade My brother was in preschool, and Mum and Dad moved to Canada for a year, where they swapped jobs with Canadian teachers. So the Canadian teachers ended up in Kingaroy, and we ended up in a very small town outside of Toronto. But that meant we got to live in that country and experience it.
Shelly: but still paying like getting paid a wage, you know. So we had incredible experiences like that. But it wasn't like lavish, you know, holidays and and things like that. It was very much that Mom and dad taught us that you you work hard, you save. And then you can, you know, have get rewarded for it.
Eloise Tomkins: Work, hard, save get rewarded.
Shelly: Hmm.
Eloise Tomkins: How do you feel that moves into your adult life, into who you are now.
Shelly: I will confess that I'm a bit of a workaholic, and I know that a lot of that through other therapy that I've done has come from a money scarcity mindset, and I'm trying to work on that. I'm trying to
Shelly: not be grabby at the next thing, but to actually appreciate.
Shelly: But I also feel conflicted because I'm so proud of my work. Ethic.
Eloise Tomkins: And.
Shelly: So I'm kind of like, yeah, I'm in. I'm in minds because I love
Shelly: and feel proud of how hard I work.
Shelly: But I also know that my body needs some downtime, and and particularly now in perimenopause, I'm learning that even more that I just can't be up on stage for days, emceeing a conference, and expect to perform again the next day, whereas when I was younger, I certainly could. So I'm having to structure some of my workload. So I get a bit of downtime, and that is also affects my income.
Eloise Tomkins: You know, that's really interesting. It's that's something I have heard before that. And we were kind of talking about this just before we hit record that aging can really impact just our energy levels. And also, you know the things that we would do when we were younger. We're just finding that we're not having as much energy for. And it's it's interesting to hear how that impacts your income. How does that?
Eloise Tomkins: How does that feel for you to kind of know that that is impacting your income as you age.
Shelly: I think there's a little bit of fear around it, but there's also
Shelly: I've got so much muscle memory of.
Shelly: I can always make more money
Shelly: like I I back myself. So I have. I have a confidence. I don't I?
Shelly: I basically left full-time employment years ago to start shell shocked, and I think I have made myself unemployable because I don't want to work for anyone ever again. I cannot imagine going into an office.
Shelly: My biggest thing is, I have such a problem with authority. So imagine working as a journalist where
Shelly: it is so brutal like, it is the most brutal industry, and so most of my career. It was all about being yelled at in newsrooms and and
Shelly: being in very competitive environments, and all of that sort of thing.
Shelly: and yet you didn't get paid that much. So now, with Shell shocked. I'm earning more than I ever have, and have less stress. Don't have any. I don't fight with the boss because I am the boss like
Shelly: much easier, but with it comes the downside of I don't have sick pay. I don't, you know, have any of those benefits that a full-time employee does so things like last year, when I was considering a hysterectomy because of my excessive bleeding with my perimenopause
Shelly: looking at having weeks off work.
Shelly: actually had me in tears, rocking in a quarter, and in the end it was a factor in deciding that I didn't have the hysterectomy that I actually had an ablation instead. So things like that. I don't think people talk about often enough, particularly when you run your own business, there's a lot of pressure.
Shelly: One thing I've become much more comfortable with is big months and small months income wise, and that was only through years of experience, because at st it
Shelly: terrified me to the point where I was almost numb. But I'm much better at looking at the year rather than
Shelly: this month. If that makes sense.
Eloise Tomkins: Yeah. And again, like, these are all things that people talk about, right? Like, yeah.
Eloise Tomkins: health. And what happens if you take time off your business and.
Shelly: Yeah.
Eloise Tomkins: If you do, take months or weeks off, and then that turns into months. For example.
Shelly: Yeah.
Eloise Tomkins: Then what you know.
Eloise Tomkins: Logistics.
Shelly: Also. Oh, sorry. Yep. Oh, wow!
Eloise Tomkins: Just as a psychologist like one of the things that we have like as a psychologist in private practice is, if you, if something does happen to you. We need to have like a plan in place, so that you know all of our notes. Now, client.
Shelly: Files, and all of that, because there is such a that continuous care.
Eloise Tomkins: Yeah, to providing them. Yeah.
Shelly: Over. Yeah.
Eloise Tomkins: And and you're right like, we don't think of that in our business, because we get so busy, I think, working like in our business that it can be hard to work on our business as well.
Shelly: Yeah, yeah, it's also hard, like, I had a look at income protection
Shelly: and the amount that they were going to charge was astronomical.
Shelly: and my husband's nearly and he is a sound recordist, cameraman and editor. So a lot of him is lifting heavy shit. That's what he does. And he was basically uninsurable.
Shelly: And I'm like that does not reflect him. That does not reflect our business. So we
Shelly: actually crunched the numbers and went.
Shelly: We are actually going to be fine without income protection, because we have set ourselves up. But I feel really I still feel annoyed about it. I still feel like
Shelly: It's the. It's probably the biggest disadvantage of running your own business, and the biggest advantage of being an employee is having that
Shelly: sick leave long service. Leave all of those benefits that you just
Shelly: don't give yourself when it's your, when it's your business.
Eloise Tomkins: And hearing you talk about this, and I don't know how this lands for you. What I'm wondering, though, is because what I've identified is that there's kind of predominant money blocks that people have. I'm not going to talk about all of them, but I will talk about the safety one, because I just want to see how it lands for you. Which is this sense of
Eloise Tomkins: making sure that you have money in the account? A buffer? And if it falls below a certain point, then there can be that real sense of fear, because it's like, Oh, my goodness, my buffer of whatever that amount is has dipped below, and then there can be this desperation to.
Shelly: Hmm.
Eloise Tomkins: Refill the the money tank, so to speak. Does that play out for you?
Shelly: Oh, yeah, that hits that hits hard.
Shelly: Here's here's a confession. I check my bank balance
Shelly: for all the accounts. Every single night before I go to sleep.
Shelly: It's just a habit that I do, but it's a comfort.
Shelly: So I have a certain amount in our business account and
Shelly: written about in my private account. My husband and I do not have joint accounts. We can so go into that because I had a bad
Shelly: but
Shelly: I know in my logical head that it would be better to have some of that money
Shelly: sitting in the home loan account and not getting charged interest.
Shelly: But I also know for my peace, for my sleep.
Shelly: for my anxiety levels having that money right there that I can see really does make me feel comfortable. And
Shelly: yeah, checking it every day. I don't know if that's a bit obsessive, compulsive, but but it's it's something that I always do. And
Shelly: I also get a feeling of pride about it, because I have never been given a leg up. I have never.
Eloise Tomkins: You know.
Shelly: You know I have friends who've got very wealthy parents, and I've got friends who had
Shelly: a parent who worked in the media industry. So they got a free ride to get in. And so I kind of feel.
Shelly: yeah, this sense of pride that
Shelly: every single dollar that I've earned I have earned. You know I have worked hard for. So that's why you know someone like me. I I've never gambled in my life.
Shelly: I have never bought a lotto ticket. My parents took me to Jupiter's Casino on the Gold Coast for my th birthday, and Dad gave me bucks, and Mom gave me bucks, and they're like, Go crazy. This, you're old enough now, and I just walked around all the gaming tables and had the free drinks. And then, when I met up with them later, and they had spent their money on the pokies. They're like, how much money did you make? I'm like a hundred bucks
Shelly: is that had not spent any of it.
Shelly: But that's just that's me. I'm like, if I'm going to spend my money, I want to return so like. If I want to spend that money on a fancy cocktail, I get that return. I'm very happy with that, but I'm just not. I'm not into risk, and I don't. I don't.
Shelly: I have. Yeah, I have have a low tolerance for people who fritter away money on gambling and stuff like that, and.
Eloise Tomkins: Hmm.
Shelly: Did have a problem gambler in our family, but I had these strong feelings about anti gambling
Shelly: years before I was exposed to any of of that situation, and they nearly lost the house.
Eloise Tomkins: Hmm.
Shelly: And that was just on the pokies
Shelly: like, I just don't think that people realize how dangerous and what a gateway it is. The pokies. So yeah, so I think I do put a strong value on my money. And I
Shelly: I know I got that from my parents. But I also.
Shelly: And I was just listening to the episode you did with Mary Miller. I also have this guilt where I now earn so much more money than my parents did, and I still ask my dad for financial advice, and he
Shelly: has been amazing, and he's helped me my whole life. But he says to me.
Shelly: this is above my knowledge level.
Shelly: you know. I think you need to speak to a financial advisor. I'm so proud of you, and you know he's like
Shelly: it's terrifying for him because he was a school principal and his
Shelly: salary when he finished after teaching, for, you know, years whatever I think he was maybe
Shelly: grand.
Shelly: you know. So that's and Mom was less because she didn't have a teaching degree. I think mum was only like
Shelly: When I got out of university. I actually worked in Pr for
Shelly: one year, which I hated because I felt like a prostitute. But there is. I'm a journalist. I like to expose those people rather than work for them. But I was paid grand my st year out of Uni, and my dad was on working as a principal at the same time.
Shelly: So that pretty shocking. And then
Shelly: and again, this is, you know, we have to factor in the time element. But it was and I.
Shelly: I then quit this Pr job. Well, no, I I kind of got sacked. But that's okay, because I deserved it.
Shelly: I then went to work for the ABC. And I was on grand a year.
Shelly: and that was in So I had no problem with halving my salary
Shelly: because I knew it was going to take me onto the path that I really wanted to be on.
Eloise Tomkins: And it's interesting, though, because you said that you don't like risk financially.
Eloise Tomkins: But and I hear that. And I I kind of understand what you're well, this is what I'm hearing from it, anyway, is when you can say that there's a
Eloise Tomkins: return on investment where it's going to benefit you in some way your career.
Eloise Tomkins: The cut in salaries are kept, but when you're.
Shelly: Yeah. So here's what it is. When the risk is me.
Shelly: I will take that gamble when the risk is putting money over to a car dealer that's that's not acceptable. So I do have this really strong
Shelly: confidence in myself
Shelly: that I can earn money that I can hustle that I can. I've I've you know I love my brain. I
Shelly: constantly. I'm coming up with new ideas for arms of the business and what I can do. And it's just basically comes down to, you know, hours in the day for me to
Shelly: implement it.
Eloise Tomkins: How do you find that? Because I hear the hustle, and I hear the limited hours.
Shelly: Yeah.
Eloise Tomkins: One of those things as well that I I see with a lot of women where
Eloise Tomkins: they're exhausted because they hustle, hustle, hustle, not getting quite the income that they want, like they know that there's more that they could be earning or they could be making yet
Eloise Tomkins: can't seem to find the time.
Shelly: Yeah. So my husband and I have made a very conscious decision not to have staff.
Shelly: So I don't want to have employees. If we employ someone within our business. It's a on a contract, because
Shelly: I in journalism. When I was working at at
Shelly: Fairfax they kept promoting me, which was great. But I ended up getting to the point where I was an editor, so I wasn't writing. I was managing staff, and I freaking hate managing staff. I don't care about their problems. I don't care about their leave. I just want to get the work done. So I think, having that experience made me realize
Shelly: I'm not a manager. I am a solo kind of gal, and I'm just so fortunate that Darren and I
Shelly: have very similar work ethics, but we also support each other.
Shelly: and something that I've done which some people might know through my Instagram is, I've started doing things called days.
Shelly: and a day is when I do exactly that So no work, no emails. I am cuddled on the couch with my rescue puppies. I am catching up on Grey's anatomy and all of my favorite shows.
Shelly: and I have found that even by having day every weeks it fills me up.
Shelly: and it is so worth it.
Shelly: I have been working very hard because I'm writing a book at the moment, which is crazy talk, because that does not make you money, but it's
Shelly: it. It ate up my days. So I ended up. I think I worked it out that in in
Shelly: since I got back from my holidays in August. I think I'd only had days off, which is not okay. So I actually scheduled last weekend days, which is what's called a weekend, I guess.
Shelly: Yeah, how about that? But I'm sure a lot of people listening. If you're running your own business, you know that you just don't get that, even if it is only a couple of hours on a Saturday, or or I'm just going to do some. You know my husband does the reconciling on and stuff like that? There's always those little things it just means. It's not a day off.
Shelly: It just sucks your energy. So I really try and work on making sure that I can refill my cup, because also, what I do is I'm often giving a lot of energy, and I'm an extrovert. I love that. But I also need some downtime
Shelly: I need. I need to unplug.
Eloise Tomkins: I do not get the whole extroverted thing. I.
Shelly: With it.
Eloise Tomkins: I don't get it. I I was talking to someone about that. I was actually talking about you. Because we were talking about extroversion, and I'm like, I don't really know any extroverts. And then you popped in my mind. I'm like no way.
Shelly: Oh!
Eloise Tomkins: One shelly shelly is definitely an extrovert. I'm like.
Shelly: So, yeah, so.
Eloise Tomkins: Get it.
Shelly: Best way to describe it is
Shelly: Covid. I was like a sunflower without sun.
Shelly: because I was just shriveled over
Shelly: because I was still emceeing events. But it was online. And I was just [email protected] didn't get people's faces.
Shelly: I didn't.
Eloise Tomkins: That energy in the room. I didn't get the cuddles at the end.
Shelly: And it it was awful
Shelly: absolutely awful. My husband is an introvert.
Eloise Tomkins: Yeah.
Shelly: Are such opposites. So now it's honestly he's just like, go out with your friends. You need to let the steam off, you know, like you're climbing up the walls.
Shelly: And he thinks it's he's he thinks he's hilarious, anyway. But he describes himself as friends, free by choice, because he's like, I'm a solo guy. He's like, if he could just be him and the dogs on the couch forever, he would be happy. But no, I I.
Shelly: Yeah, it's hard for me. I live with an introvert, so I get it. But.
Shelly: oh, my God! It powers me up, and being up on stage when I'm particularly now, I'm doing more keynotes as well as emceeing when I'm doing a keynote. It means I'm sharing something that's really mine, and I've got one at the moment that I'm doing about menopause in the workplace, and I'm so proud of it, and
Shelly: I almost float off stage afterwards
Shelly: like it is such a great feeling it is.
Eloise Tomkins: That I understand that I get the speaking I get, but just the friends and the people don't get.
Shelly: But.
Eloise Tomkins: I don't. I don't get it, but I love it. I love it for you. And I see, like we for listeners context. We met at a business chicks conference in in Port Douglas. And I could just see Shelly's energy. And me, I was like, Okay, I'm calling it a night, and Shelly's still there, you know. Blast and whatnot can't do this.
Eloise Tomkins: But I wanna like you mentioned your husband, and
Eloise Tomkins: I'm super curious, because you said that you're opposites in every way, and
Eloise Tomkins: you you do. You have this amazing, effervescent energy.
Eloise Tomkins: and I don't want you to be that sunflower, that shrivel. So, thank God, we're out of Covid.
Shelly: Yeah.
Eloise Tomkins: That being said, though like, how have you found, like the dynamics of money between the of you?
Shelly: Yeah, it's been really important. So I've been married before. And in my st marriage we had joint accounts, and basically all we had was joint debt and a joint credit card that was sitting at at least $like we were just hemorrhaging in interest
Shelly: for no reason like it just
Shelly: we didn't have anything to show for it. It was just that we were living beyond our means, so when I left him
Shelly: I had to borrow money from a friend
Shelly: to book the hotel room, because I didn't want to use the joint credit card one, because I didn't want him to know where I was, and because I didn't feel comfortable using our joint money.
Eloise Tomkins: To leave him basically so that was.
Shelly: Such a horrible learning curve.
Shelly: And then, when I met Darren, he was grand in debt, and I had my own investment property, and I was doing well.
Shelly: And so we sat down. And I'm like, I'm I'm not gonna be taking on your debt like that is not gonna happen. And so he was just like.
Shelly: I will. I will sort that out, and I will prove it to you before we get married. And he cleared that $debt within years before we got married, and now we have bought a property together. We've bought. We bought properties together. One is our home that we're in on the Gold Coast. So that is definitely the of us.
Shelly: We had an investment property on the Northern beaches in Sydney that we bought together, and I had my investment property, which was up near Noosa. Now
Shelly: his name was not on that investment property at all. That was.
Eloise Tomkins: Bill.
Shelly: Be shared.
Shelly: But I also
Shelly: I you know, I had the the shit marriage, and now I've got the amazing one where we talk about it, and he's like, let's put it down in paper. Let's get a legal document. So you don't worry that I'm going to try and
Shelly: take anything from you if things don't work out.
Shelly: So we we are very open about that, and
Shelly: we have the hard money conversations because
Shelly: I am the show pony, and he is the workhorse. So
Shelly: I'm the one up on stage, you know. Rah, rah! Rah!
Shelly: But he has this incredible sense of value that I don't think I have, or I don't think, and I think if the roles were reversed and
Shelly: and he was a breadwinner, and and I was more in the role of support.
Eloise Tomkins: Hmm.
Shelly: I don't know how my ego would take that, or if I would value myself, he values himself. He is like, you can't do what you do without me.
Shelly: You can fly around and do flights in weeks because I'm here. I'm looking after the dogs. I'm taking care of the house. I'm picking up the airport. I am mopping up your tears because you're overworked. He
Shelly: stand so strongly in that.
Shelly: Makes me value him as well.
Shelly: So yeah, we're on the same page. And then, interestingly, because interest rates were just so horrific.
Shelly: We both made the decision
Shelly: to sell both of our investment properties, so that we now, I think we now owe about grand on our home, so we will soon be debt free.
Shelly: and
Shelly: where I've had so many people say that was a bad decision, and you should never sell an investment property and all that sort of stuff. Again. It comes down to your own how you feel about things. But we went from feeling sick to feeling great.
Eloise Tomkins: - and.
Shelly: And I just I just think that some people
Shelly: put themselves under so much pressure and put marriages under pressure because of the amount of debt you have.
Shelly: And we've just taken that away. And for us it's been great. We do have a financial advisor who is now like, Okay, well, yeah, we're paying off the house. That's fantastic. But we are putting more money into super. We are going to do this. He's guiding us. But yeah, it's been. I think the the best thing is just the open conversations about it, and
Shelly: sometimes we have blow-ups, but they last
Shelly: half an hour, and then, you know, most time it's me who apologizes because I've been a bit of a shit. But
Shelly: but it's yeah. It's transparent open. And if there are any concerns we talk about, it is.
Eloise Tomkins: I love that so much, because I think money is a real difficult conversation for people to talk about, even with their partners, and.
Shelly: Hmm.
Eloise Tomkins: That people do talk about it with their partners, and because we bring our own money story into our relationship.
Eloise Tomkins: it can be really conflicting, and I see it so often where one partner has one money story, another partner has a money, other another money story, and they're trying to kind of soothe their anxiety because they've both got money anxiety, and it's like they're butting heads, and there's conflict around it, whereas what I hear from you is
Eloise Tomkins: he kind of helps you with that safety piece of okay? Well.
Eloise Tomkins: and I don't know. This is me assuming. But we don't need this piece of paper because I'm not gonna screw you over. But I know it's gonna help you feel better. So let's do this thing, and that's really lovely to hear. But what I heard and what's been I've held in my mind is
Eloise Tomkins: he knows his worth, and what I also heard from that, or what I took from that is.
Eloise Tomkins: I wish I had more of that.
Shelly: Oh, yeah, I I still have struck, struggled with
Shelly: how much I charge. And valuing myself.
Shelly: And I worked with a business coach who's also a psychologist.
Shelly: and she would stop me, and I would say things like, but I'm just a journalist.
Shelly: and she'd be like, what's the just about?
Shelly: There's no just before that you are very successful. I
Shelly: and I have. I have struggled, I'm incredibly confident, but I still have those moments where I'm like holy shit. I'm just a girl from King Aroy. What the hell am I doing here, you know. So there's there's a bit of a battle with that with value. But
Shelly: I also have an agent. So my agent, when it comes to the big things that are like me, and I'm representing a brand, or I'm
Shelly: even emceeing an event. She negotiates the money which I love because she is very comfortable, but I don't know. I don't know if it's a.
Shelly: It's a May thing or a female thing, but I have always felt
Shelly: oh, I'm not worth that much. I I don't. I don't feel comfortable charging that much.
Shelly: I had an interesting situation. So I've been teaching media training for
Shelly: nearly years, like the whole time I've worked as a journalist. It's been a little bit of a side hustle that I have done and then
Shelly: through my business coach, and then I also have another group of business women that I work with called the accountability circle. And that's a small group. And with that we have to be completely transparent with their fine, our financials
Shelly: with, you know, other women. Oh, my God! But I've actually loved it. It's actually been empowering.
Shelly: And they were just like, you are not charging enough. And so I put my rate up, for my media training
Shelly: increased. It was, I think it was like and I increased it to like the jump was a thousand dollars.
Eloise Tomkins: Hmm.
Shelly: But I had not increased that for years.
Eloise Tomkins: So it's like, and you know what.
Shelly: No one batted an eyelid.
Shelly: I did not lose any clients I did like. It was just like holy shit. This is just me holding me back here. Not anyone else.
Eloise Tomkins: So, yeah, right? It's interesting, isn't it? So? Yeah.
Eloise Tomkins: I I have to share a story on that, because I,
Eloise Tomkins: what I find is I had a client once who said
Eloise Tomkins: I really did not want to tell this client that I didn't want to work with them, so what I did was, I decided to triple my prices, because surely if I tripled my prices they would walk away.
Eloise Tomkins: They did not bat an eyelid.
Eloise Tomkins: and I was like, you know, what would have worked even better is if you learnt how to say no, that probably because, as women, we do, we fundamentally under charge because
Eloise Tomkins: of society, I see from a young age women's worth is very much dependent on what can you do for me?
Shelly: Yes.
Eloise Tomkins: And we carry that throughout our whole life, and we have to work to detangle all of that stuff.
Eloise Tomkins: And
Eloise Tomkins: even with your agent negotiating like I love that, and it's also very common, like. Oh, thank God, they can deal with that! I sit with that discomfort of having to negotiate, because that gives me like for me. As you were saying, that I felt like this constriction in my throat like, Oh, you know, like it can be, it can feel really uncomfortable.
Shelly: Yeah, and I think.
Eloise Tomkins: Women.
Shelly: I still have to do it within my own business, because my agent doesn't get commission on shell shocked work. She only gets it on me being, you know, doing my stuff.
Shelly: so I still have to do it. But I I'm
Shelly: definitely getting to the point where I am now like.
Shelly: I will say no to jobs that are not worthwhile.
Shelly: I will say no to them, because I know how much effort I have to put in. I know how much prep there is, and if they're not willing to pay.
Shelly: I'm not willing to give up that time, because I can earn it in other parts of my business. So that's been something something that's been really
Shelly: annoying, because, moving from Sydney to the Gold Coast is, they just don't do not pay the same rates up here like when it comes to speaking gigs and emceeing.
Eloise Tomkins: And.
Shelly: I'm happy to be open about it. I get paid about grand for an emceeing gig, and I can tell you that that is
Shelly: probably days of prep and research and writing all of the intros, and then it is a full day of me up on stage, keeping the energy up keeping everything to time, and that is
Shelly: very. That's a very standard right
Shelly: on the Gold Coast. They pay
Shelly: like that's not worth it. So my agent is just like, Get on a plane.
Shelly: because the the the pay difference between the States
Shelly: is just astronomical. So I I was getting really frustrated, and I was wanting more work here.
Shelly: But I've actually just gone. You know what? They're not ready. They're not ready for this, you know, so I'm sorry. What I am finding is Sydney companies or national companies are having conferences on the Gold Coast.
Shelly: and they'll pay the grand.
Shelly: So it's of those things where I'm just like I'm I'm not gonna play small just because you guys haven't caught up. I'm just not.
Eloise Tomkins: I'm not.
Eloise Tomkins: Yeah, and I love that. And oh, I love that. And it makes me think of this time where I had a conversation with someone who was complaining that they
Eloise Tomkins: got offered a speaking gig, and when they got to the event they found out that somebody had been paid to speak.
Eloise Tomkins: and they were like, Oh, well, I should have been paid to speak as well.
Eloise Tomkins: me being me, cause you know I can't help myself. Sometimes I was like, Well, should you, or should you have like asked, if you had this expectation, or you had a desire to want to be paid?
Eloise Tomkins: Why didn't you ask?
Eloise Tomkins: Yeah. And she didn't like that very much.
Eloise Tomkins: but that's the that's a hard conversation to have
Eloise Tomkins: right. And that's why I want to talk about money, because I think we don't have these hard conversations, and I'm so sick and tired of women just expecting things to be handed on a silver platter because
Eloise Tomkins: we should, we should deserve it. Well, no, sorry. No one's gonna come and just give you what you want fucking. Take the space and ask for it.
Shelly: Yeah, absolutely. And also, I think it's
Shelly: different to like, I'm years into my career. So when I am teaching, you know my workshops on speak with impact, and a lot of people are wanting to do speaking gigs.
Shelly: I have to remind them that I started at a very low rate, I started doing things for free. You've got to get your runs on the board. You can't go from to Hero like instantly. So I think that there is a little bit of earning your stripes, but then, once you've earned them, don't let them go.
Eloise Tomkins: Yeah, I love that. I love that. And that's such a good point. And I have to actually hear that reminder sometimes, because I'm definitely one of those people that wants to go from to and I constantly have conversations with my coach who reigns me back a little. And it's it's good to be ambitious like, and I do think the action is good.
Shelly: What I have found.
Shelly: When I coach, not coach. I'm not a coach, but you know, when I advise people around, this sort of stuff is.
Eloise Tomkins: Hmm.
Shelly: If you're not getting paid, what are you getting out of it? And it could be.
Shelly: I experience up on stage because you need you need time on those boards. You know. It could be publicity. It could be that. You will then pay a videographer to film you at the event, and then you'll have a sizzle reel that you can send to speaking agencies and get more gigs. So if you're going to do it for free.
Shelly: make sure you're getting something out of it. If
Shelly: does that make sense like? So there's a value. But it's just not. May not be a dollar value.
Eloise Tomkins: And that's the thing that I find. That's a really good point. And I think sometimes we have this expectation where money we should get money as a reflection of
Eloise Tomkins: the like. That's the tangible outcome that we're looking for.
Eloise Tomkins: And I was talking. I was on a panel over the weekend, and one of the things that we were talking about is money.
Eloise Tomkins: Another name for it is currency.
Shelly: Yeah, I like that.
Eloise Tomkins: Rod.
Shelly: Yeah, no. I like words. And.
Eloise Tomkins: Yeah, that's just me.
Eloise Tomkins: Yeah.
Eloise Tomkins: right? Right? And money is currency. But what you've described is like, there's a currency. It's an exchange. That's literally what it is. And so you're right that it's not always about money, as the thing that you're going to get in exchange. But we place such a high value on that as being the outcome. We forget, and I know I'm guilty of this, too, like I'm not immune money mindset code psychologist like, I'm not immune
Eloise Tomkins: to wanting that, either, but
Eloise Tomkins: money comes like, and that's where I think, like when we start to see money is abundant, like you were saying like.
Eloise Tomkins: you can get money in other ways. It will come. But you've got to get your rungs up on the board, and then it will come.
Shelly: Hmm of investing in yourself. It's an.
Eloise Tomkins: Yes.
Shelly: In you.
Shelly: and I know I felt really frustrated when I was in Sydney recently, and I caught up with some
Shelly: people that I used to work with, who I'm not friends with, like they were colleagues. Some of them were my boss old bosses and the
Shelly: attitude, and they're still employees, and the attitude was,
Shelly: Oh, you moved to Queensland. You must have really taken a hit with your income doing that, and I'm like.
Shelly: no, I'm still earning about times what I did as an employee.
Eloise Tomkins: Hmm.
Shelly: And I it just my hairs on the back of my neck stood up. Just going.
Shelly: You don't get it. You will never run a business. You will never have that extra hustle you want to clock on clock off. That is your decision. But don't make any assumptions about me, because that is not my path.
Eloise Tomkins: It's really interesting.
Shelly: And I hope they're listening to this right now.
Eloise Tomkins: Probably won't be because they'll be thinking money. I don't need to work on my release.
Shelly: True.
Eloise Tomkins: Unless they say your name attached, and they're like, Oh, I I wanna see how, how.
Shelly: Yeah. How much he earned.
Eloise Tomkins: Yeah, yeah, yeah, cause people, do they like to judge? They like to compare. And they like to
Eloise Tomkins: for other. And you know, it's hard because we use other people as a rung to measure where we.
Shelly: Yeah.
Eloise Tomkins: In.
Shelly: Actually, Ellie, remember, we had that conversation at business chicks about
Shelly: friends, and I declaring how much we earned to each other.
Eloise Tomkins: Oh yes!
Shelly: So this, I think this is so valuable and that women don't do it enough. Yeah. So the of us
Shelly: of us were employees at the time, and one ran her own business.
Shelly: and we all went to Bali on a girls trip, and it was not
Shelly: an expensive holiday or anything like that. But we were sitting around the pool talking, and I'm just like I have no idea what you guys earn
Shelly: like. One of my friends was in the same industry as me and the other one. So one was a journal, and one was in Pr.
Shelly: And so we were like we should just say it.
Shelly: But then all of us got like pains in our stomach.
Shelly: and giggly, and just like, Oh, my God, this is so confronting. And so we just went, okay, on the count of everyone's going to say their income. and we blurted it out.
Shelly: and then it was like holy shit, and I was earning the least. So I was on My other friend, who worked in the same industry was on and our friend, who ran her own business.
Shelly: paid herself a year, but was making millions.
Eloise Tomkins: And we.
Shelly: Had an assumed knowledge, but had no idea so what happened after ripping that Bandaid off.
Eloise Tomkins: Hmm.
Shelly: Is. We then all supported each other.
Shelly: and I'm like, how the hell did you get? ? And she's like, here's how I negotiated it, you know. Blah blah! And it was like we learnt from each other. And then we had really interesting conversations about running your own business.
Shelly: And now the of us run our own businesses.
Eloise Tomkins: I have goosebumps like from head to toe, hearing that, I in the most positive way, because you're so spot on. And and again, that's why I do the work that I do, because women don't talk about money.
Eloise Tomkins: Women don't, and we've been taught not to.
Shelly: It's taboo. It's it's impolite. It's, you know. I just don't under. I think
Shelly: it's it's like, it's you know what it is. It's holding us back.
Shelly: Yeah, talk about it. They talk about it on the golf course. They brag, you know, but and we would hate to be hate anyone to think that we were bragging.
Shelly: When you know what sometimes you should not, maybe not brag, but give yourself a pat in the back.
Eloise Tomkins: Yeah, but like you don't.
Shelly: Get free money, you work for it.
Eloise Tomkins: Absolutely, and I also think it's not like the connotation is brag. But well, actually, it's what exactly what you said. Reframe that too. Well, hang on a minute. It's giving yourself a pat on the back, and it's acknowledging your achievements when we talk about money just like you did with your friends.
Eloise Tomkins: It wasn't a competition of Oh, my God, I'm earning like less than like half of what you're earning. It wasn't about that. It was about.
Eloise Tomkins: How can I leverage that so that I can be financially free myself? And that's what I want to empower women to be able to do to create that financial freedom. But we can't do that. If we're scared, if we're sitting there going.
Eloise Tomkins: I don't know how much you weren't, but you look like you weren't a lot because you got a nice bag. But I don't wanna ask. So I love that. And that's why I wanted to have this conversation with you because
Eloise Tomkins: you are like me, a disruptor.
Eloise Tomkins: And I have really sat. I have found that hard with myself because I've always wanted to fit in, and you know fit in the little box, and once I realized
Eloise Tomkins: I don't belong in a box. Then boom out. I've come, but I know, like you have, that you say the things that people
Eloise Tomkins: won't say so. I really am so
Eloise Tomkins: honored that you joined me on the show and spoke and shared because I know people listening. The women listening are just gonna be like, Oh, my gosh!
Eloise Tomkins: Relate on so many levels. And
Eloise Tomkins: what I do want to share
Eloise Tomkins: is one. If people are listening and they're thinking, oh, my gosh! You've mentioned some money blocks, and you want to uncover what yours are.
Eloise Tomkins: I have a quiz that is really designed to help you understand what that money block that you're holding.
Eloise Tomkins: That predominant money block is. So I'm going to pop the link in the show notes for you if you're interested and shelly. What I also want is because you've mentioned quite a few different offerings that you've got at the moment I'm going to link them in the show notes for you. But can you tell our listeners where they can go to find you? And obviously your little doggies.
Shelly: Oh, yes, my cute puppies, Mr. Barkley and Maui. So if you follow me on Instagram, I'm at Shellyhorton one, the number one, which is weird because
Shelly: there's a guy in America with like followers who's shelly Horton, a guy I'm like what? Anyway, I've got
Shelly: I'm not so unfair.
Shelly: The thing that I'm passionate about the moment is my speak with impact workshops, which is a new offering that I started this year, and it has sold out, and I'm thrilled about that. And that's about empowering
Shelly: mainly women and mainly smaller businesses, or people who work within a company and and don't have the confidence it's giving them the confidence to speak up, whether it is at a job interview, or if it's promoting their own company, or maybe even just doing, you know, showing up on social media. So I do that here on the Gold Coast with my husband, because we have our own studio, we've converted our double garage into a broadcast studio, which is amazing.
Shelly: So that's my favorite thing. But then the other thing is that I'm passionate about is perimenopause and the workplace. So if anyone needs
Shelly: someone to come and speak at their workplace, I am your gal, because I got knocked to the ground with perimenopause. But I fought my way back up, and I truly believe this is a workplace issue, and I can help a lot of people. So they're all you know. I think there's a theme with with you and I, and it's like it's taboo topics.
Shelly: We talk about it, the more we're going to help people.
Eloise Tomkins: I love that so much, Shelley. And yeah, love that we're both disruptors and sharing that. So thank you so much. I'm going to pop all that information in the show notes for people and for everyone else listening. Please tune in again next week. I cannot wait to share another episode with you. Then.
