Eloise Tomkins: Hello and welcome back to another episode of the rich woman rising. Podcast I'm your host, Eloise Tomkins. And I'm a money confidence coach and psychologist, and I love to help women heal their relationship with money, using body-based techniques so that you can heal from within rather than staying very intellectual about your relationship with money.
Eloise Tomkins: And today.
Eloise Tomkins: wanna have a chat with you about something that don't know about you. But I definitely experienced when I started my business. When I st started my business, I remember telling my friends
Eloise Tomkins: and my friends are all to fivers their employees.
Eloise Tomkins: and they haven't really ever had, to my knowledge, an interest in starting a business which is fun.
Eloise Tomkins: Not everybody has to start a business, and I totally get that. And I remember talking to one of my friends, and explaining that one of the reasons I wanted to create a business was because I wanted to make more money.
Eloise Tomkins: and the reason that I wanted to make more money was because
Eloise Tomkins: I had spent so long training to become a psychologist like years at university studying loads, and
Eloise Tomkins: when I graduated.
Eloise Tomkins: the salaries varied from $to around a hundred K. That's a huge difference. $differences in the salaries.
Eloise Tomkins: I was like I. That's
Eloise Tomkins: wild. There are people out there who haven't gotten degrees, who are earning more than me, and I want to make more money.
Eloise Tomkins: And I was explaining this to my friend, and I remember her just being like Oh, my gosh! Why.
Eloise Tomkins: why do you want to be so greedy?
Eloise Tomkins: I was like
Eloise Tomkins: taken aback by that. And that was kind of one of these st experiences of me really being confronted with
Eloise Tomkins: people's other other people's perceptions of money and
Eloise Tomkins: highlighting their money blocks and also highlighting my desire to want to create a profitable business and to want to change my life.
Eloise Tomkins: And I hear this a lot with business owners. Where, when we start a business.
Eloise Tomkins: when we talk about money, when we start to become successful and make money, it can create
Eloise Tomkins: friction in our friendships, particularly if some of our friendships
Eloise Tomkins: with people who are entrepreneurs, who don't have the same
Eloise Tomkins: knowledge or understanding of what it takes to run a business, and I've certainly experienced that within my friendship circle where
Eloise Tomkins: I would talk about things like lead generation and people. My friends would say things like, Oh, well, have you put flyers in people's letter boxes? Or.
Eloise Tomkins: yeah, you really need to be able to talk about money, and that'll get clients for you and I was like, Oh.
Eloise Tomkins: I really appreciate your trying. But you you have no idea.
Eloise Tomkins: and it can be really difficult when our success
Eloise Tomkins: means that we financially outgrow our friends
Eloise Tomkins: or things change the dynamics shift.
Eloise Tomkins: It can be really hard, and sometimes it can feel like those friends
Eloise Tomkins: you kind of move away from you, outgrow them. And there's actually a couple of signs that I see when you do start to outgrow those friends.
Eloise Tomkins: For example, there's the underlying comments like they almost those.
Eloise Tomkins: it's like negging. I don't know if you've heard that term like dating, negging a compliment. That's not a compliment it's got these subtle undertones that are kind of passive, aggressive in a way. And I've definitely heard those like you're too. You're too ambitious. Why would you want that. And actually, they're probably not negging. They're just like rude.
Eloise Tomkins: because they're their money stories, not my own.
Eloise Tomkins: Or there might be the guilt trips about how much you work, because.
Eloise Tomkins: again, don't know about you. But for most women that I speak with starting a business is not easy. There's a reason that within the st years of starting a business, most of them fail or a majority of them fail.
Eloise Tomkins: That's because it's not easy for a lot of reasons you're learning about business. You've got. You might have the skills like me. I've got the psychology skills. But I've had to learn a bucket load of business skills, marketing skills.
Eloise Tomkins: And sometimes that means you are working a lot.
Eloise Tomkins: or you're trying to learn new skills. You're hiring coaches like, I have invested a lot of money into coaches.
Eloise Tomkins: and my friends will say things to me like, Oh, my goodness, how much are you spending on that coach like that's crazy!
Eloise Tomkins: Are you really spending that much on a coach? And I'm like, it's actually not that much. But yeah, I am.
Eloise Tomkins: because it's really helping me.
Eloise Tomkins: Or they might say things like money isn't everything, you know
Eloise Tomkins: like, why does that have to be all about the money?
Eloise Tomkins: Don't you like being a psychologist?
Eloise Tomkins: That should be enough.
Eloise Tomkins: or it might even be where they minimize your wins. And you don't feel like you can share the big stuff that comes up.
Eloise Tomkins: You've just got a new client, the highest paying client yet. That's a massive win for you.
Eloise Tomkins: But you feel like you have to downplay it.
Eloise Tomkins: or even sometimes like I don't know. I've had conversations like this with my friends like with the marketing.
Eloise Tomkins: I don't talk about it.
Eloise Tomkins: cause I'm like I'm not gonna put letterboxes like posters in people's letter boxes. That is not a marketing strategy. That is gonna work for my business.
Eloise Tomkins: I mean, would you read that you're my ideal client. Would you be reading
Eloise Tomkins: a letter in your letterbox? You know? Probably not.
Eloise Tomkins: And if you are, let me know. Send me a message on Instagram. Be like, yeah, Ellie, I'd love a letter from you in my letterbox.
Eloise Tomkins: It's not gonna happen, because that's not my preferred marketing method. It is for some people like I, you know, plumbers do it. People fixing your windows and stuff, but not my business.
Eloise Tomkins: and it can be really difficult, and in some ways like that, then leads into this idea also of like staying relatable, because
Eloise Tomkins: the more you succeed, the more income you generate.
Eloise Tomkins: your lifestyle starts to change. And that's not a bad thing. But you might be able to start affording different types of holidays a different type of car.
Eloise Tomkins: maybe even living in a different suburb or different hobbies.
Eloise Tomkins: or having more money to go to different restaurants. And they can't.
Eloise Tomkins: And that
Eloise Tomkins: can be difficult, because in some ways you want to just be like, yeah, we'll go to that cheap restaurant down the road last time I got food poisoning there. But I know that you're struggling for cash. So sure let's go there.
Eloise Tomkins: And there can be this pressure to stay relatable.
Eloise Tomkins: All of those are some signs that
Eloise Tomkins: maybe your Friendship group is limiting your growth.
Eloise Tomkins: because when you are surrounding yourself in that energy.
Eloise Tomkins: it can be really difficult to move up to that next level and
Eloise Tomkins: to move up to that next level kind of requires an identity shift
Eloise Tomkins: and letting go of an old identity can be really, really hard.
Eloise Tomkins: And it's not to say everyone you're going to want to let go of everyone like
Eloise Tomkins: I have friends who definitely don't own as much as me.
Eloise Tomkins: and I will still go and do something cheap because I value the friendship.
Eloise Tomkins: There's other things that I get out of it, and I'm not talking about all of your friendships.
Eloise Tomkins: or maybe they are. I don't know.
Eloise Tomkins: That'll be something for you to think about.
Eloise Tomkins: And it's okay sometimes to go to that cheap restaurant. It's okay to do things that don't cost a lot like it doesn't all have to be about the money.
Eloise Tomkins: It's more of that general sense. How do you feel around them
Eloise Tomkins: now that you are doing something different with your life, and your business is doing really well.
Eloise Tomkins: and the reason often behind that friction
Eloise Tomkins: actually has nothing to do with you. It has nothing to do with you. It has nothing to do with your success.
Eloise Tomkins: but it has to do with them
Eloise Tomkins: a lot of the time, and their money blocks.
Eloise Tomkins: you know, we can even relate this to our partner in some ways. I'm not gonna go there. Actually, I'm not gonna go there at all. Cause. I think that's a whole separate conversation.
Eloise Tomkins: It trigger like our success, can actually trigger other people's insecurities.
Eloise Tomkins: It can trigger their money blocks. It can trigger their
Eloise Tomkins: their own stuff that they've got
Eloise Tomkins: with one of my friends like.
Eloise Tomkins: I remember having a conversation around how much we would charge as a psychologist, and
Eloise Tomkins: my response was, Well, I'm absolutely not going to charge anything less than $
Eloise Tomkins: My friend was like and I could like, see her physically
Eloise Tomkins: pull back and have this really physical response to that amount of money.
Eloise Tomkins: And she was like, no, there is absolutely no way I would be able to charge $like no.
Eloise Tomkins: And when we kind of tease that apart, there was some family stuff that
Eloise Tomkins: obviously, like, you know. We think about money always, always childhood family stuff, and the relationship with money that our parents had, that then filters on to us.
Eloise Tomkins: But her family stuff her money blocks
Eloise Tomkins: influenced. How she responded to me and my desire to charge a particular price
Eloise Tomkins: in my work as a psychologist, and
Eloise Tomkins: and had nothing to do with me
Eloise Tomkins: had absolutely to do with me, and
Eloise Tomkins: a lot to do with her.
Eloise Tomkins: and how she felt towards money. But sometimes, like when we're connected to that person. We want to
Eloise Tomkins: have them like us. We want to belong. We wanna
Eloise Tomkins: I don't know. Get along with that person because we don't want other people to not like us right? And so when we have that kind of stuff, it can come across as conflict.
Eloise Tomkins: and we don't like. It doesn't feel good. So we try and avoid it, which is where
Eloise Tomkins: we do these things like minimize our success to try and avoid that conflict.
Eloise Tomkins: That's not a healthy friendship. That's not a healthy relationship.
Eloise Tomkins: because your friends should be lifting you up. Your friends should be celebrating you.
Eloise Tomkins: and unfortunately, sometimes that financial success can change or challenge
Eloise Tomkins: the group dynamics that you have
Eloise Tomkins: and that can be really uncomfortable to sit with, and a lot of women will go through changes
Eloise Tomkins: in their friendship groups as their business grows.
Eloise Tomkins: I know personally I have changed my friendships a lot.
Eloise Tomkins: not just because of my business, but because of my own personal growth, and wanting more from my friendships, wanting more emotional depth.
Eloise Tomkins: wanting more vulnerability and connection.
Eloise Tomkins: So there's lots of reasons why we might change our friendship. Groups, business and success can certainly be one of them.
Eloise Tomkins: and a lot of people
Eloise Tomkins: struggle, especially in Australia, like apparently I don't know. I don't really know much about the research around this, but tall puppy syndrome. People don't like
Eloise Tomkins: other people, particularly women.
Eloise Tomkins: It's really funny, funny, and not in a ha! Ha! Way, but funny in a what the fuck kind of way
Eloise Tomkins: women don't like to see other women succeed.
Eloise Tomkins: It is wild.
Eloise Tomkins: although, you know I think about it from a socialization perspective, and it kind of makes sense like women have been socialized to not want to see other women succeed.
Eloise Tomkins: We are socialize to tear other women down.
Eloise Tomkins: and because if we fight with other women
Eloise Tomkins: and compare ourselves to other women, and what are they doing, and how can I be better? And da, da, then
Eloise Tomkins: it actually stops us from focusing on
Eloise Tomkins: the rest of what's happening in the world.
Eloise Tomkins: and how actually, things aren't really that equal for women. Because if we're so busy comparing ourselves to other women.
Eloise Tomkins: we can not pay attention to that other stuff.
Eloise Tomkins: That's my opinion, anyway. Don't know whether that's founded in research, but that's my thoughts.
Eloise Tomkins: And so that tall puppy syndrome can be really difficult, because you're out there
Eloise Tomkins: basking in the sun, so to speak, enjoying your success. And then people just want to come and cut you down because you're taking up too much space, and they don't like that.
Eloise Tomkins: However, do you know what I think? The thing is is that instead of letting yourself be cut down.
Eloise Tomkins: find people who support your growth.
Eloise Tomkins: who are like, yeah, we want to water you. We want to support you. We want to nurture you
Eloise Tomkins: so that you can grow even bigger and brighter, and it can become
Eloise Tomkins: really empowering to find that group of friends. It can be really isolating.
Eloise Tomkins: and it can be really empowering finding them.
Eloise Tomkins: And I think during that phase where you're kind of in between
Eloise Tomkins: the group of friends who's kind of like
Eloise Tomkins: not quite supporting you in the way that you
Eloise Tomkins: would like, or is kind of stunting your growth.
Eloise Tomkins: holding you back in some way to finding that empowered group
Eloise Tomkins: who lift you up, help you support. You really want to see you grow.
Eloise Tomkins: It can be a really difficult transition space.
Eloise Tomkins: and it can require a little bit of work to move to that next stage.
Eloise Tomkins: But the thing I love to kind of think about is
Eloise Tomkins: our friendship in kind of circles. It sounds a bit weird when I say it like that. Let me explain.
Eloise Tomkins: The way I see it is that we have kind of like our inner circle
Eloise Tomkins: of like the person like us, and the person who.
Eloise Tomkins: or persons like. Maybe there might be one or people that are your like go to.
Eloise Tomkins: Often this person is usually a partner and someone super close sometimes in your mostly in people's families.
Eloise Tomkins: or a really close friend. Usually it's a partner.
Eloise Tomkins: And then outside of that circle there's some again close people.
Eloise Tomkins: but they're not as close as the people in the inner circle.
Eloise Tomkins: and there might be people like your best friends.
Eloise Tomkins: A family member who you're really close with.
Eloise Tomkins: Generally not a colleague at work, or
Eloise Tomkins: something like that. Normally, those people in that outer circle are still quite close.
Eloise Tomkins: They're people that you might call at Am.
Eloise Tomkins: If you needed something, and there's probably not going to be a lot of people in those st circles.
Eloise Tomkins: Then outside of that, we're starting to build out kind of our acquaintance network or our friendship network of people who we might see every couple of weeks.
Eloise Tomkins: We might go out for a coffee with them individually.
Eloise Tomkins: But we probably wouldn't share too much about the in-depth personal stuff.
Eloise Tomkins: And then, outside of that, there's kind of those acquaintances that we might go out for dinner with every months, maybe in a group setting, or you catch up with them every now and then, or you see them out, at events with other people, but they don't form a part of your inner circles.
Eloise Tomkins: and then moving out again is kind of where we've got like the broader
Eloise Tomkins: people that we interact with.
Eloise Tomkins: It might be checkout person at Coles or
Eloise Tomkins: people that you pass in the street and whatnot.
Eloise Tomkins: So I kind of conceptualize it like that. And the reason that I like to conceptualize friendships in that way
Eloise Tomkins: is because it can help
Eloise Tomkins: when you're thinking about your friendship circle. You might have those friends who you're like, yeah, they are stunting my growth.
Eloise Tomkins: And maybe they were in your inner circle.
Eloise Tomkins: So maybe it's time to move those people out
Eloise Tomkins: if you still want them in your life.
Eloise Tomkins: or maybe it's time that they're no longer in that inner circle. Maybe they move out to the acquaintance phase
Eloise Tomkins: you get to decide, and, like bunny blocks, they have their own circles, too.
Eloise Tomkins: and in their mind they might still perceive you in their inner circle. And that's okay. And I know I've certainly had that before where I've had people who have thought and considered me their best friend.
Eloise Tomkins: whereas in my circle they were kind of
Eloise Tomkins: in one of the further out circles.
Eloise Tomkins: So even though we're conceptualizing it our own way and thinking, okay, well, where does that person sit? They may be thinking of it differently. And you know what? That's okay.
Eloise Tomkins: If you're feeling up for it, you might even want to have a conversation with them around. Hey?
Eloise Tomkins: I'm noticing that
Eloise Tomkins: our conversation like when I talk about my business and the success I'm noticing that you make comments that I'm too ambitious. And actually, that makes me feel really.
Eloise Tomkins: really kind of resentful.
Eloise Tomkins: And it really makes me not want to come out and have dinner with you.
Eloise Tomkins: So you know, I actually want to limit the amount of time that I spend with you. I still value your friendship, but I just can't be around you as much.
Eloise Tomkins: and you might not like that can be really tricky to do. And
Eloise Tomkins: that being said, I don't necessarily think it's great to ghost people, particularly if you've been friends with them for a long time.
Eloise Tomkins: But that being said, you are all also can pull back on friendships without necessarily having to
Eloise Tomkins: have a sit down conversation, and I've done that recently where I needed to end a friendship that we had been friends for years.
Eloise Tomkins: and it was really really difficult, because this was someone who was a really close friend.
Eloise Tomkins: But I didn't like who I was
Eloise Tomkins: around this person. I felt like I wasn't able to be myself, and
Eloise Tomkins: I ended the friendship, and it sucked.
Eloise Tomkins: It really sucked, and a part of me would have just loved to have walked away and not said anything. But that's also not in line with my values. So I decided to have a conversation.
Eloise Tomkins: Was it fun. No. Was she hurt? Yes. Was she angry also? Yes.
Eloise Tomkins: and I also needed to do it.
Eloise Tomkins: And I'm glad that I did.
Eloise Tomkins: Do I miss this person. Yeah, of course.
Eloise Tomkins: and both things can be true.
Eloise Tomkins: So you get to decide what those friendship boundaries are for you, and whether they're working for you.
Eloise Tomkins: and if they're not, you get the opportunity to decide what you want those boundaries to be, whether it's
Eloise Tomkins: moving them out into it further out circle, whether it's having that conversation and seeing if there's any shifts that can occur. But you
Eloise Tomkins: get the choice.
Eloise Tomkins: However, that looks for you, because you
Eloise Tomkins: deserve to have people that are going to lift you up
Eloise Tomkins: to support you, to cheer you on
Eloise Tomkins: because we're already again. I'm speaking for myself here, and I work with a lot of women. So I'm kind of confident. When I say this.
Eloise Tomkins: we're our own worst critic.
Eloise Tomkins: We don't need someone else coming along and criticizing us, even if it's just subtle comments. We don't need that.
Eloise Tomkins: We need someone like who's gonna believe in us like I have met people who do not know me.
Eloise Tomkins: And I've told them about my business, and they're like, Fuck you rock like, that's awesome. Yeah, you're gonna do amazing things with your business.
Eloise Tomkins: And then I talked to my friends, and they're just like, huh! Why, why would you want to do that?
Eloise Tomkins: Why would you? What?
Eloise Tomkins: Why would users not want to stay in a to
Eloise Tomkins: Pick your people because I just can't stress this enough like you deserve to have people cheering you on
Eloise Tomkins: like you. Fucking deserve that. Of course you do. Oh, my God! I could like go on a tangent about this.
Eloise Tomkins: And so you might then think about
Eloise Tomkins: your current social circle. So this conversation might be having you reflect on. Well.
Eloise Tomkins: what does my current social circle look like?
Eloise Tomkins: And I think that's super important, because I don't know again. I don't know about you, but I feel like for me. I
Eloise Tomkins: don't really audit my social circle.
Eloise Tomkins: And well, maybe I do. Actually, I think we do.
Eloise Tomkins: you know, like you come home from
Eloise Tomkins: dinner, or connecting with a friend?
Eloise Tomkins: And you might think, oh, that was really good. I feel really energized.
Eloise Tomkins: or you might come home and think, oh, that was really draining!
Eloise Tomkins: But we don't really stop, pause, slow down, and take stock of that friendship
Eloise Tomkins: and think. Hmm! Why was I feeling drained? Oh, I was feeling drained because they spoke about themselves
Eloise Tomkins: all night, and they weren't really interested in what I had to say.
Eloise Tomkins: or I tried to talk about
Eloise Tomkins: this part of my business, and
Eloise Tomkins: they just laughed and and didn't really care.
Eloise Tomkins: It can be helpful to understand
Eloise Tomkins: what it is about our friendship that we find difficult or frustrating
Eloise Tomkins: one that gives us the ability like. If we do decide to have a conversation with them, we can have that evidence, you know. And
Eloise Tomkins: no, not that. We need a justification, but it can be really helpful just to
Eloise Tomkins: for our own selves to know what it is that we are questioning.
Eloise Tomkins: and why we're wanting to move that person out.
Eloise Tomkins: because sometimes when we get space, we can step back from something we can think. Oh, wasn't really that bad? And in fact, someone was talking to me about this the other day, and they were like.
Eloise Tomkins: it's not that bad.
Eloise Tomkins: And then we kind of peek into it. It's like, okay, actually, yeah, it is pretty bad.
Eloise Tomkins: So when you have that information, then you can kind of be like. Oh, well, these are the reasons why, and sometimes we need to come back to it and revisit it.
Eloise Tomkins: And when we think about our friendships and
Eloise Tomkins: shifting people in or out of our circles.
Eloise Tomkins: It can then take confidence to build up new friendships.
Eloise Tomkins: That's not always easy, especially as an adult.
Eloise Tomkins: And that's where things like going to networking events can be really helpful and powerful
Eloise Tomkins: building relationships in your business, probably not with clients until they're no longer clients.
Eloise Tomkins: I mean, that's up to you and use your discretion. However.
Eloise Tomkins: sometimes that doesn't work out so well
Eloise Tomkins: and use that as an opportunity to reflect on what kind of friend you are and what kind of friend you want to be as well, because I don't think that we
Eloise Tomkins: think about that. We think we're a particular type of friend, but sometimes we're not.
Eloise Tomkins: and I know that's definitely me as well like I know that.
Eloise Tomkins: It took me a long time to realize that I wasn't
Eloise Tomkins: the kind of friend I wanted to be in the friendship that I ended recently, and
Eloise Tomkins: that didn't align well with me, but in order to be the friend that I wanted to be, I couldn't be friends with that person. It just
Eloise Tomkins: wouldn't lack.
Eloise Tomkins: But the beautiful thing is, you can have success.
Eloise Tomkins: You can have quality friendships and a quality network around you.
Eloise Tomkins: and it may take some time to build that up.
Eloise Tomkins: But being around shitty people that don't feel good for you, and who bring you down.
Eloise Tomkins: You don't have to tolerate that
Eloise Tomkins: easier said than done, and I totally get it like I don't know. I just kind of think about it. I'm like, it's easier said than done.
Eloise Tomkins: And I know that this is something that a lot of people will talk to me about.
Eloise Tomkins: particularly as wealth grows, because there is that sense of feeling different.
Eloise Tomkins: or even like. If you have come from wealth and
Eloise Tomkins: other people around you. And but you're working like you're running your business. But then other people around you you know, getting the income in other ways, like they've inherited wealth, and they don't need to work. So they don't.
Eloise Tomkins: And they've got that generational wealth, and they rely on that and can just kind of do a lot of volunteer work or charity work.
Eloise Tomkins: or go to the club and be that trophy wife, which is a word that some of my clients use, and
Eloise Tomkins: it can be difficult. But there are people out there that you can find, connect with and find that sense of belonging, and I think part of that comes down to
Eloise Tomkins: knowing yourself, knowing what you want, knowing what you deserve, knowing your worth.
Eloise Tomkins: and then finding people who are able to support that.
Eloise Tomkins: So I hope that this episode has encouraged you to think about the friendships that are all around. You. Think about the quality of friendships.
Eloise Tomkins: Think about whether the people in your life are people that you want in your life.
Eloise Tomkins: and also whether you're the friend that you want to be to other people as well.
Eloise Tomkins: On that note, I'm going to end this episode here. And I cannot wait to share another episode of the rich woman rising podcast with you next week. Until then, take care.
