Eloise Tomkins: Welcome to another episode of the rich woman arising podcast I'm your host, Eloise Tomkins, and I'm a money mindset coach and psychologist and love helping women shift their relationship with money so that they can not only make more of it, but to enjoy the fact that they have money without feeling, guilt overwhelm, and all of those uncomfortable emotions that we feel.
Eloise Tomkins: And you might have noticed on the podcast that I've had a few guests on the show, and today we have an incredible guest who I am. I think I say this for every single guest, but I truly mean it from the bottom of my heart with every single guest I have Dani Zetzer on the show, who is a lawyer, not just a lawyer, an absolutely
Eloise Tomkins: fucking, brilliant lawyer, who I have so much respect for, and I'm going to hand over to Dani, because I think that she can introduce herself way better than I will ever be able to. So, Dani, welcome to the show. And can you tell us a bit about who you are and your absolute brilliance.
Danielle Zetzer: Okay.
Eloise Tomkins: Pressure.
Danielle Zetzer: Well, yes, I'm a lawyer. I only do family law, and that's all that I've ever done.
Danielle Zetzer: So that's my special niche, because it comes from a real passion to help families navigate separation and to try and
Danielle Zetzer: maintain or restore relationships rather than destroy them through the court system.
Danielle Zetzer: And I've been running my own law firm for a number of years, which has come with a lot of lessons and trials and tribulations, of course, but I'm also really proud of it.
Danielle Zetzer: proud of the culture that I've created in my firm, and proud of having somewhere that I enjoy coming to every day. And then, more recently, I've really branched out into media talking about women in business, women empowerment.
Danielle Zetzer: Yeah, money
Danielle Zetzer: when it comes to women in business and our approach to money. And that's taken me on a
Danielle Zetzer: wild adventure. And part of that is my podcast diary of a divorce lawyer, which I'm really enjoying. So
Danielle Zetzer: yeah. So my day is really mixed and varied. There's some, you know, court work, legal work. And on the other side, there's, you know, the media side, which is more fun and creative. But I get some different things from both of them.
Eloise Tomkins: Gosh! I love that so much, and you know I I love
Eloise Tomkins: the like varied nature of the work that you get to do, because and I think that's of the perks about running your own business is that you get to make choices about what you want to do. But I also know that it wasn't always this way for you, and and I also know, and I'd love you to share a bit about how you got into the family law, because I know that, like you said, that comes from a really personal place and has a lot of
Eloise Tomkins: There's a lot of personal context as to why you got into that space. Can you share a little bit about that journey?
Danielle Zetzer: Yeah, absolutely like both my parents are immigrants to this country. And they met when they were teenagers.
Danielle Zetzer: and they separated in their late twenties, very young. After having kids together. And it was, you know, unusual circumstances, because the sheriff came and repossessed our home, and my mum wasn't aware
Danielle Zetzer: of really the financial strife that we were in, and my dad was really ashamed, like, you know, he wanted to protect her from that. I suppose it was a little bit in denial as well. But what ended up happening is, we were really left homeless, and we had a couple of years where we moved around a lot.
Danielle Zetzer: So we moved times in years. My mum had no education. She dropped out of school in year
Danielle Zetzer: No real skills to go make a living.
Danielle Zetzer: And she had very young children to support.
Danielle Zetzer: So we were and
Danielle Zetzer: And so she really started to lean on me, which is very normal and natural when you go through a separation for
Danielle Zetzer: the vulnerable parent to lean on. The eldest child is really.
Danielle Zetzer: Quite common.
Danielle Zetzer: And I felt that like I felt like I really had a responsibility to help Mom and to do whatever I could.
Danielle Zetzer: but I also felt
Danielle Zetzer: really resentful that no one was looking out for my needs.
Danielle Zetzer: he thought, well, hang on! Where's my lawyer?
Danielle Zetzer: And so
Danielle Zetzer: I really, from a very young age, was very motivated to be a lawyer, and to help families to do this differently if I could.
Danielle Zetzer: and and I was very determined, and I was the st woman in my family
Danielle Zetzer: to finish school, let alone go on to university and get a law degree. So
Danielle Zetzer: that's
Danielle Zetzer: yeah, I think that's brought a lot of pride to my parents, which is really nice, and a lot of healing through the work that I do. They're now on really good terms, and help each other out, and
Danielle Zetzer: it only took years. But I'm proud of us as a family.
Eloise Tomkins: He is welcome.
Eloise Tomkins: Oh, that's so tough, Dani, you know, and I think
Eloise Tomkins: it's interesting, isn't it? Well, I find it interesting. How so much of who we become as an adult is really those early life experiences that we had and so much of what you share. I'm sure so many people listening will relate to. I can relate to like
Eloise Tomkins: studying psychology, I mean, I was always fascinated by people's behaviors, particularly my family, particularly my mother, where she would do behave in particular ways. And I'm like.
Eloise Tomkins: why are you doing that like? That's not the social norm. That's not. Why are you so special? Why do you think you're so special? And that led me to really become curious about people which ultimately led to studying psychology? So
Eloise Tomkins: there's a lot of foundation
Eloise Tomkins: of our childhood that leads to
Eloise Tomkins: what we choose to do as an adult, and I know that you help. So many families have a
Eloise Tomkins: in the best possible way, have the best divorce
Eloise Tomkins: or separation for their family to prevent them going into the courts, which is just amazing. And not only that, like you've come from a childhood where there has been homelessness, where there has been a lot of financial instability.
Eloise Tomkins: and where there has been moments of like
Eloise Tomkins: not having enough.
Danielle Zetzer: There was a huge amount of fear
Danielle Zetzer: growing up.
Danielle Zetzer: So I think it was, you know, on levels. st of all, as immigrants.
Eloise Tomkins: Hmm.
Danielle Zetzer: And, like my mom, was always suspicious, like she got social security like money from centrelink like, is there a catch to this like, you know there's all there was that fear, mentality, not understanding the documents so well, and
Danielle Zetzer: and then, on the other side, in terms of like losing the roof over your head.
Danielle Zetzer: and just always feeling like someone someone was coming to get her. She always felt like.
Eloise Tomkins: Hmm.
Danielle Zetzer: Would never be able to cope, and so there was always a fear of like
Danielle Zetzer: just not having enough to make ends meet, not being able to pay the bills.
Danielle Zetzer: and I think to a large extent that still, you know, plagues her a little bit.
Danielle Zetzer: and
Danielle Zetzer: I kind of had to break loose. Of that I was definitely in that same cycle for a very long time.
Danielle Zetzer: And I did a lot of reading on fear.
Danielle Zetzer: and I kind of
Danielle Zetzer: The best way I can describe it is like the Nike Slogan, you know, which I think is amazing. It's magic. Just do it because there's something there is magic in feeling, the fear feel like, and the fear is so real that you think you're going to die. I mean, it's right, and then just doing it, anyway.
Danielle Zetzer: And that really is how
Danielle Zetzer: I've managed to kind of break the cycle.
Eloise Tomkins: Did you do that? Because I mean, I find that a lot of women, particularly the women that I work with
Eloise Tomkins: have this sense of like. They know that there's something blocking them. There's this sense that it is fear, and yet the
Eloise Tomkins: emotion of fear. It actually prevents us from taking action. And so I actually have a massive issue with field of fear and do it anyway, as a slogan. So I guess I'm curious like, how did you get to that point of just doing.
Danielle Zetzer: A lot of therapy, but I started small.
Danielle Zetzer: So it was. You know, the small risks that really, you know.
Danielle Zetzer: I started school.
Danielle Zetzer: My worst case scenario didn't eventually. Well, sometimes it did, but I.
Eloise Tomkins: Still.
Danielle Zetzer: Like, hey?
Danielle Zetzer: And sometimes that's led to huge mistakes that I regret. So it's not, you know. It's not all a bit of roses, right. But I think that's part of the journey. And I think you know, I'm a huge fan of podcasts and every entrepreneur that I've ever listened to on a podcast has had major failures.
Danielle Zetzer: And that's the only way they've succeeded because they've learned much more from their failures than their successes.
Eloise Tomkins: Do you attribute like cause? And and I know, and we're gonna get to this in a little bit. But I know that there have been and I don't know whether you would call this a failure or how you would describe it, but I guess what I'm wondering is like, how how do you navigate that like those failures, those moments where you're like? I have fucked up so bad. And I don't know how I'm gonna recover from that, because
Eloise Tomkins: I guess what I'm thinking from that is linking that in with fear and like fear is such a
Eloise Tomkins: a strong body reaction that you feel
Eloise Tomkins: like it's a visceral reaction.
Danielle Zetzer: Hmm.
Eloise Tomkins: And so how do you then
Eloise Tomkins: navigate that? How do you tolerate that fear so that you can keep putting one foot in front of the other.
Danielle Zetzer: I can think of like
Danielle Zetzer: kind of instances in my career path
Danielle Zetzer: where I've had that fear that you know just way like, it's just this weight of pressure in your chest where you feel like you just can't go on right.
Eloise Tomkins: Hmm.
Danielle Zetzer: So the times that that's happened. I'm happy to happy to share openly. The st time was when I was fired from a legal
Danielle Zetzer: job that really meant a lot to me. And I just thought.
Danielle Zetzer: you know, I'm never. I'm never going to make it.
Danielle Zetzer: From that I started my own law firm.
Eloise Tomkins: Hmm.
Danielle Zetzer: The second time was when I split with my business partner from family law life, like she's the most beautiful person, right? So I thought, if I can't make business partnership work with this person.
Eloise Tomkins: Hmm.
Danielle Zetzer: I'm a failure. How am I going to do this? And I started respect legal, which has been, you know, a big success.
Danielle Zetzer: And the rd time was when.
Danielle Zetzer: during Covid I was. You know I have, Adhd and I get bored easily. I decided to teach myself share trading and crypto trading, and I loved it, and I did it for and a half years very successfully, and I grew my investment to million Us. Dollars.
Danielle Zetzer: Which is insane to even think of.
Danielle Zetzer: And on one
Danielle Zetzer: terrible early last year
Danielle Zetzer: I lost all of it along with hundreds of thousands of people. It was a very bad day in the market, but I thought I was safe. I didn't think I had over leveraged.
Danielle Zetzer: but I actually did over leverage, and did make the huge mistake of putting it all in right, which I would never do again.
Danielle Zetzer: And
Danielle Zetzer: all examples.
Danielle Zetzer: when they happened, I felt like this was the end of the world.
Danielle Zetzer: Felt like
Danielle Zetzer: I was going to die, that there was no future for me, that I was done. There was a cold sweat all over my body that panic and fear of like, how are you going to take your next step right.
Eloise Tomkins: Hmm.
Danielle Zetzer: And I think and we've spoken about this.
Danielle Zetzer: I think the key with any kind of healing from anything is to take radical responsibility
Danielle Zetzer: for your part in it.
Danielle Zetzer: And with all things I had to really take responsibility for the part I played.
Danielle Zetzer: I think the second part is like really sitting in the discomfort of the fear and not trying to avoid it. You know the dopamine hits, you know. Alcohol drugs
Danielle Zetzer: what you name it right, and just sit in it.
Danielle Zetzer: which was very difficult.
Danielle Zetzer: and then the rd part.
Danielle Zetzer: you know, which is, I suppose you know about this, that I'm kind of still on that journey is okay. Well, let's take those learnings
Danielle Zetzer: and make something good out of it.
Danielle Zetzer: and so
Danielle Zetzer: I can see now how you know. Losing my employment led to me. Starting my own firm, losing business partnership, led to respect legal. I don't know where losing million Us. Dollars is going to lead to next.
Danielle Zetzer: but I do have faith because I've seen it from my life experience
Danielle Zetzer: that my failures have learned have led to
Danielle Zetzer: successes
Danielle Zetzer: from and but from learning from them. So if you just put your head in the sand and say, Well, it wasn't my fault. It was a bad market day.
Danielle Zetzer: you know. Then I would have gone on to to lose more right. But we've got to face it and really take responsibility and learn from it. And so.
Eloise Tomkins: Hmm.
Danielle Zetzer: I feel good about where I'm at, and I actually was able to let go of those losses very, very quickly.
Danielle Zetzer: And I think that is from
Danielle Zetzer: faith, and I don't mean that in a religious way at all, because I'm not religious, but I believe in myself. I believe that I am capable, and that I have the skills to rebuild from any rock bottom.
Danielle Zetzer: And that's taken time to cultivate, you know. And I think, being in my forties. Now, it's much, much easier. Yeah.
Eloise Tomkins: I love that so much, and I can. I'm just wondering how listeners are experiencing hearing that because I mean, I've heard these your stories before, and I'm aware that not everybody who's listening has, and
Eloise Tomkins: the idea of million dollars.
Eloise Tomkins: and then
Eloise Tomkins: opening that account up and like I don't know what was on the screen, whether it was just a lower number or zeros.
Danielle Zetzer: See you, ray.
Eloise Tomkins: Yeah, like that is just
Eloise Tomkins: wild, you know. Like to feel like you're on top of the world financially. To then.
Danielle Zetzer: I didn't, though
Danielle Zetzer: I didn't feel on top of the world. And that was the problem.
Eloise Tomkins: Hmm.
Danielle Zetzer: I felt guilty
Danielle Zetzer: about having that kind of money and having achieved it easily. And I kept saying, you know, there's people working in factories earning $a day, and I've just made all this money sitting in my bed on my laptop. It's not fair. I felt ashamed.
Danielle Zetzer: I felt like dirty is how I would describe it.
Danielle Zetzer: and I the mission for the money was to go into a charity that I'm deeply passionate about establishing
Danielle Zetzer: right, and and I think I will get there but a different way. But because I wasn't comfortable
Danielle Zetzer: with that wealth, and I never used, I never withdrew, I never touched any of it. I
Danielle Zetzer: splurged and went and bought a handbag. Nothing.
Eloise Tomkins: Hmm.
Danielle Zetzer: Which shows you I was so uncomfortable with it.
Danielle Zetzer: And so that's the learning
Danielle Zetzer: that I take from this loss. Not that I was silly, and then I put too much in, or that I thought I was an expert in something, and I shouldn't have been. That's all kind of.
Danielle Zetzer: you know shame and the shame spiral which is not helpful. The learning I take from it is.
Danielle Zetzer: why didn't I feel like I had earned it? Why didn't I feel proud of earning it.
Danielle Zetzer: and I think most men would have felt proud of it. They would have been bragging about it. I certainly wasn't bragging about it. No one in my life would have known.
Danielle Zetzer: Really, I kept it to myself.
Danielle Zetzer: And what? Yeah, why was I ashamed of it like it would keep me up at night.
Eloise Tomkins: Hmm.
Danielle Zetzer: And so that's the work I've been doing since that loss.
Danielle Zetzer: and I haven't. I haven't traded since, but not because I'm scared, but because I know that unless I
Danielle Zetzer: break that pattern and learn to be proud of accumulating wealth
Danielle Zetzer: and not attach shame to it, it's gonna happen again.
Eloise Tomkins: Yep, because we repeat those patterns, and that insight that you have into your relationship with money is so powerful because you can.
Eloise Tomkins: And I think, taking away those learnings from it and taking that information and data
Eloise Tomkins: and having a bit of neutrality. I hope I said, that right towards money, you know, so that you can kind of go. Okay? Well.
Eloise Tomkins: and and there was a lot of emotion attached to that money, and and.
Danielle Zetzer: A lot. Yeah.
Eloise Tomkins: No, and well, I mean.
Eloise Tomkins: I don't see emotions as good or bad, rather information. It was giving you information about that relationship with that million, and that information that it was giving you was I don't like how this money came into it felt, too. I don't want to say easy, but
Eloise Tomkins: I'm trying to think of like a better word. Maybe you have a better word, but it.
Danielle Zetzer: I slept. I slept probably Ā HA night for and a half years, I mean, like
Danielle Zetzer: there was nothing easy about it. But it was just.
Danielle Zetzer: It was this shame that there's, you know, so many women struggling
Danielle Zetzer: to make enough to pay rent.
Danielle Zetzer: And there was this all this money just sitting there.
Eloise Tomkins: So what would be different if you then make money in a different way, instead of investing like, how will that shift for you.
Danielle Zetzer: So I don't think it was the way I made it.
Danielle Zetzer: I think it's old stuff from childhood, where you know. That's saying, you know the filthy rich, you know, because we were in Struggle Town when we saw people who were wealthy and seemed like they were having such an easy life, which, of course, is never true.
Danielle Zetzer: You know we were, you know, we were taught. Oh, they're filthy, rich.
Danielle Zetzer: filthy, rich, you see. Like, yeah, that connection like. And that's how I felt. I felt dirty, and I felt ashamed. Because.
Danielle Zetzer: yeah, it's like we wore a badge of honor that we were struggling.
Danielle Zetzer: and that all these people over there they don't know
Danielle Zetzer: how how hard life really is, but of course they do. They have all the same pains and struggles that everyone else does.
Eloise Tomkins: it's interesting, because I've read Paris. Hilton's memoir, I bring up paris Hilton and her memoir, a lot like, I love it. And I really like Paris, Hilton, and it's interesting because
Eloise Tomkins: I mean, you talk about filthy rich, and people would probably say that about her because she and her family have oodles of money like I don't even know how much they're worth multiple. I don't know whether they're billions, but they've got like multiple millions of dollars like hundreds of millions of dollars, and
Eloise Tomkins: I read her memoir.
Eloise Tomkins: and
Eloise Tomkins: it talked about how, when Paris was a teenager, she went to her parents undiagnosed Adhd. Her parents sent her to some school for troubled youth, but for the rich like, so it was a meant to be like some Upmarket facility
Eloise Tomkins: where she was then
Eloise Tomkins: not cared for for years, and there was a lot of
Eloise Tomkins: horrible things that were done to her. And
Eloise Tomkins: yet she has money.
Eloise Tomkins: and when she left that place she said to her grandfather, I want to make a hundred million dollars. And he was just like, Okay, cool.
Eloise Tomkins: not laughing at her, not saying like, if I said that to my dad he would like be like, what?
Eloise Tomkins: Yeah, right? But to him it was just normal. But to Paris it was a way for her to feel safe and in control. And even so, it doesn't matter about how much money, because her her
Eloise Tomkins: perception of wealth like a hundred million dollars was achievable. But also I don't want to say nothing like, but it was. It was achievable, whereas to people who don't come from that
Eloise Tomkins: level of wealth would find that
Eloise Tomkins: really wild like I even me thinking about it. And I, you know, money mindset, but still kind of think a hundred million dollars like, Wow, that feels like a lot of money.
Eloise Tomkins: so I guess
Eloise Tomkins: I don't know where I was going with that point, but
Danielle Zetzer: Yeah, it doesn't take away the pain that she experienced, and what.
Eloise Tomkins: Yeah.
Danielle Zetzer: Right.
Eloise Tomkins: %.
Danielle Zetzer: So I mean, it's achievable for any of us a hundred million dollars. But
Danielle Zetzer: it's also okay to not want that.
Danielle Zetzer: Don't all need to want a hundred million dollars right?
Danielle Zetzer: And
Danielle Zetzer: sometimes, and not always. There are sacrifices to be made to make that kind of money not always right.
Danielle Zetzer: And so
Danielle Zetzer: I think
Danielle Zetzer: I think the world would be a tricky place if we all wanted to earn a hundred million dollars at any expense.
Eloise Tomkins: Hmm.
Danielle Zetzer: I think it's also really okay
Danielle Zetzer: to find joy and pleasure
Danielle Zetzer: in the smaller things in life and not needing a magic sum.
Eloise Tomkins: And.
Danielle Zetzer: To bring you some sort of
Danielle Zetzer: happiness. I mean, it's clear.
Eloise Tomkins: No, it doesn't.
Danielle Zetzer: With her. It's clear that it hasn't. She's had all the
Danielle Zetzer: she's had, all the trials and tribulations that any of us have had right, and I didn't think about Paris, Hilton, but I kind of love it.
Eloise Tomkins: Yeah, I love. I love Paris, you know, but you're right, and that's the thing like
Eloise Tomkins: you can be. It doesn't matter about the money. It doesn't matter how much money you have. You're right. We're all human. We all have our own experiences, whether you have, whether you're homeless or whether you have hundreds of millions of dollars that worth comes from within.
Danielle Zetzer: Yeah.
Eloise Tomkins: And
Eloise Tomkins: it's interesting, I guess, when I see Paris, Hilton, like she struggled with her self worth
Eloise Tomkins: and money, resolved that for her. And so that's where I get. I get really passionate about wanting to help women with their self worth and separate it from money and success and achievement. And I guess. That was something that you kind of spoke of a little bit before, around increasing your self worth. How has that kind of helped
Eloise Tomkins: navigate some of these experiences that you've had with money to build a business that is really really, in my eyes, successful.
Danielle Zetzer: I think you know I was raised by holocaust survivors, my grandparents and my grandmother always taught me that no one is above or beneath you, right? So like the holocaust was based on the concept that you know people needed to be eradicated because they were another race, right? And so she always taught me, and it's a bit vulgar, and it sounds different in Yiddish. But she said, you know, everyone goes to the toilet the same way.
Danielle Zetzer: all human right.
Danielle Zetzer: And so she taught me to speak to the person that collects your garbage the same way as I would speak to a Supreme Court judge.
Eloise Tomkins: Hmm.
Danielle Zetzer: And so, when I have had the opportunity to go, speak to the Chief Justice of Australia.
Danielle Zetzer: I don't feel nervous, because I remember they're human, just like they're not better than me. I'm not better than them right?
Danielle Zetzer: And so that has really helped with my confidence.
Danielle Zetzer: But also and I know you don't like it, but
Danielle Zetzer: you know, the st time I went into a courtroom I ran to the bathroom and spewed before I went into the courtroom.
Danielle Zetzer: Still did it.
Danielle Zetzer: I didn't stay in the toilet cubicle and say, I can't do this and stay on the floor, you know, and even if I did do that the next time I would try again.
Eloise Tomkins: Hmm.
Danielle Zetzer: I don't know where that came from. I think it's from, you know, like being raised by very resilient people.
Danielle Zetzer: But the other.
Danielle Zetzer: the concept is, it's okay to feel all those feelings, including fear.
Danielle Zetzer: Not to stop you from doing something that you want to do if you don't want to do it.
Danielle Zetzer: and it's not aligned with you.
Eloise Tomkins: Hmm.
Danielle Zetzer: Your body telling you don't do this, but I wanted to stand before
Danielle Zetzer: you know the Chief Justice of Australia, and make arguments on behalf of my client. I wanted to do that.
Danielle Zetzer: and yes, I spewed before because I was petrified.
Danielle Zetzer: and then I did it.
Danielle Zetzer: you know, and maybe I didn't do it as eloquently as I would now, but I did it, and so, and all that practice has led to, you know I can do it.
Danielle Zetzer: you know I can do it very easily now.
Danielle Zetzer: so I think confidence is not something that you wake up and get takes practice, you know, and absolutely. There are more confident personality types than others, of course. Right?
Danielle Zetzer: but practice is a big part of it.
Danielle Zetzer: I'm not naturally an extrovert. It takes me a long time to recharge, and I do that by being alone alone. Time is very important to me.
Danielle Zetzer: Whereas a natural extrovert.
Danielle Zetzer: you know, goes to an event, and they're just like their bucket is filled by that energy. Mine is totally depleted.
Eloise Tomkins: Don't understand extroverts and.
Danielle Zetzer: I'm getting into.
Eloise Tomkins: I'm just like I don't. I don't get it. I was gonna say, I wish I did, but I don't.
Danielle Zetzer: People make that mistake of like assuming that a confident person is just extroverted, and instead of me often. But
Danielle Zetzer: the confidence is a learned skill, I really do think, and I think it helps. If you're passionate about the subject matter
Danielle Zetzer: that's going to be in a more important driver than your fear.
Danielle Zetzer: So if you can find something that is more important to you than the fear, then you're onto something doesn't mean it's going to be easy.
Danielle Zetzer: but it's gonna be easier right?
Eloise Tomkins: And I love that so much like my reflections, from what you've just said, is that
Eloise Tomkins: well, there's a few one is that
Eloise Tomkins: I guess like I'm thinking of you in the bathroom stall, and like I mean, I don't want to think of this viewing part because ill. But you know what I kind of take from that is.
Eloise Tomkins: I've I'm feeling really uncomfortable, and and this fear is giving me information.
Eloise Tomkins: And I'm using this information to say, yes, I'm fearful. Yes, I'm scared. I'm terrified.
Eloise Tomkins: And because I'm feeling this emotion, I still have choice. I still can make a decision on whether I want to get hooked into my feelings, whether I want to get hooked on my thoughts, whether I want to. What do I want to do with this data that I'm collecting from my body.
Eloise Tomkins: and I think that that there's real power in that. And
Eloise Tomkins: you know, for people listening, I would really encourage you to think about
Eloise Tomkins: do? Are you able to understand the cues that your body is giving you, and be able to interpret it? Because
Eloise Tomkins: sometimes that can be really, really tricky when.
Danielle Zetzer: It's totally different types of fear, right? I don't want someone who's in a Dv situation in the bathroom spewing
Danielle Zetzer: to then get the courage to go back out there and sleep with the guy. Right?
Danielle Zetzer: That fear is telling you danger, and you need to run.
Danielle Zetzer: This fear was telling me, wow, you really care about this, you want to do a really good job. And this is really important to you. And so you're a bit scared, you know.
Danielle Zetzer: So yeah, it's learning to really understand
Danielle Zetzer: the difference between those types of fears as well, right? And I think
Danielle Zetzer: way too often as women, we're taught to
Danielle Zetzer: shot down
Danielle Zetzer: our feelings.
Danielle Zetzer: you know.
Danielle Zetzer: when we're little kids, and we're told to give Uncle Johnny a hug, and we're uncomfortable. No, no, don't be rude, go give him a hug right. And so we learn to really ignore our cues.
Danielle Zetzer: and so to then tap back into your cues and be really honest and open with yourself about what they mean.
Danielle Zetzer: May
Danielle Zetzer: the only way I'm able to do this, I'll just speak for myself. It's to sit in it
Danielle Zetzer: to sit in the discomfort of the feeling.
Danielle Zetzer: If I try and avoid it.
Danielle Zetzer: it's it leads down a very.
Danielle Zetzer: a bad path for me, because that's where I lead to addictions overworking.
Eloise Tomkins: Yeah.
Danielle Zetzer: Avoiding my basic needs.
Eloise Tomkins: Yeah.
Danielle Zetzer: Really comes back down to me. Okay, well, what is this? What is this that I'm feeling? And what does it mean? And
Danielle Zetzer: And I love that.
Eloise Tomkins: I love that example, Dani, as well, and and that's such a good point of
Eloise Tomkins: what does it mean? And how am I interpreting it. And and again
Eloise Tomkins: I don't like when people say, Oh, just listen to your gut.
Eloise Tomkins: because your gut's always right. If it tells you. No, then listen to that, and I'm like, well, hang on a minute.
Eloise Tomkins: No, your gut will
Eloise Tomkins: who will not? Not even your gut. Your body will
Eloise Tomkins: find situations and experiences that feel familiar. Hence what you were saying about that Dv. Domestic violence. Sorry, using shorthand situation that a woman might want to go back into. Oh, I want to go back and sleep with this abusive partner, because it feels really familiar to my body, even though, like rationally, I get that. It's a bad idea it feels really familiar. And
Eloise Tomkins: so, listening to your gut in that situation, you know, might not be the wisest choice.
Eloise Tomkins: And
Eloise Tomkins: so that's where being able to discern. Okay, what is it telling me? And do I want to listen to it? Which is where I love your example? Again, going back into the bathroom, where it's kind of like. Okay, what is this information telling me? Yes, I'm fearful. And
Eloise Tomkins: okay. It's also because I want to make an impact versus. Yes, I'm fearful. And this is actually a a legitimately dangerous situ situation that I'm
Eloise Tomkins: going to be exposed to. So that's a really wonderful point to raise. Because I think that's something that you know, I'm really big on. And and I want to teach and instill in people, because
Eloise Tomkins: just blindly following our body or our mind without
Eloise Tomkins: tuning into it, can lead to some like you said really destructive behaviors. For me it was food, and also undiagnosed Adhd and dopamine, but you know, like, so we do kind of then find other ways that help us cope in those moments when, if we can lean into that discomfort doesn't feel good like. Oh, my gosh! It doesn't feel great.
Eloise Tomkins: and it's also where the power lies. And I guess I'm curious, because you've now got this business respect, legal, which has
Eloise Tomkins: gosh! When I visited your office I don't even remember how many offices we walked past, and the team that you have created and the culture that you've created. How has doing this work, doing the therapy, doing the coaching, tuning into your body
Eloise Tomkins: and leaning into discomfort? How has that enabled you to create the business that you have created today.
Danielle Zetzer: I think it's
Danielle Zetzer: by going through. The things that I've gone through in my life has definitely made me a better leader.
Danielle Zetzer: I think when I started out
Danielle Zetzer: I was more influenced by fear. So I came across, I think, as controlling as micromanaging.
Danielle Zetzer: You know this is to years ago.
Eloise Tomkins: Hmm.
Danielle Zetzer: And so I've had to learn and evolve over time.
Danielle Zetzer: And some of my team are still with me from those days, and they've seen the change in me.
Danielle Zetzer: So I think you know you need to be constantly open to learning.
Eloise Tomkins: Hmm.
Danielle Zetzer: And
Danielle Zetzer: show vulnerability with your team.
Danielle Zetzer: And so that doesn't mean trauma dumping onto your team right? But they've been with me through a marriage breakdown. They've been with me, you know. Business split breakdown, the loss of all that money in there with me right? And taking them on that journey with me means
Danielle Zetzer: they're willing to open up and let me share their journey.
Eloise Tomkins: Hmm.
Danielle Zetzer: And that's a real privilege.
Danielle Zetzer: And so we really are very, very supportive one another of one another. And we have, like % dropout in the st years. Family lawyers, because it's very, very hard work.
Eloise Tomkins: Hmm.
Danielle Zetzer: Very draining. It's very, it's it's
Danielle Zetzer: look you're going through one of the hardest times of people's lives with them.
Eloise Tomkins: Hmm.
Danielle Zetzer: They're not themselves, you know. Sometimes
Danielle Zetzer: they're really, really struggling, and they're relying on you.
Danielle Zetzer: So it's not an easy job. And so what we've done is create a culture where we can rely on one another and support one another.
Eloise Tomkins: Hmm.
Danielle Zetzer: You know, to withstand the work in a way, and also enjoy the work
Danielle Zetzer: which at point in my career I thought that wouldn't be possible.
Danielle Zetzer: So at this stage, now, we're really aware of when someone's struggling, and we kind of pick up the slack, or, you know, give support.
Danielle Zetzer: And then there's the money factor right in business, because we're all about care and holistic support for a client.
Danielle Zetzer: And that can make it difficult
Danielle Zetzer: to to make money right? So at the moment we have matters in court, out of a hundred
Danielle Zetzer: we would probably make more money if we, instead of having a hundred clients, we just had or clients in court.
Danielle Zetzer: That's it. Alright.
Danielle Zetzer: that's an easier model, isn't it?
Danielle Zetzer: You're just dealing with or people charging them a fortune instead of this other model, where we've got a hundred clients to service, and then we're charging them a lot less per person, right?
Eloise Tomkins: Hmm.
Danielle Zetzer: But the reality is
Danielle Zetzer: I couldn't sleep at night doing it the other way.
Eloise Tomkins: Hmm.
Danielle Zetzer: And so when you are doing something that is aligned with your values.
Danielle Zetzer: and you're proud of the work that you do. I do believe the money comes like we really don't have to. I've never had to panic about. Where is the next client coming from?
Eloise Tomkins: Hmm.
Danielle Zetzer: You know, it's something that people talk about a lot, you know. Where do you get your clients like networking things like that? I do all those things for enjoyment, for community.
Eloise Tomkins: Indeed.
Danielle Zetzer: Other business owners.
Danielle Zetzer: but I never had to think.
Danielle Zetzer: Crap! We don't have enough work.
Danielle Zetzer: That might be the nature of the work, you know being recession proof. But I'd like to think it's because we're so aligned with our values, and that comes through with everything that we do that most of our work is coming from happy clients, referring their friends.
Eloise Tomkins: and I love that. And it's kind of that idea that
Eloise Tomkins: you can have a successful business that doesn't look like everyone else's. That is financially viable, that is financially successful where you feel good about going into work because it's aligned with who you are as a person, the values that you have. And it didn't exist prior to you. Right?
Eloise Tomkins: So you created it. You're like, okay, I'm gonna shake things up a little. And I'm gonna create the thing that I wish I had
Eloise Tomkins: when I was a kid to support my mom and my family. And I'm also going to
Eloise Tomkins: create something that is different, so that
Eloise Tomkins: nobody else will kind of be doing that same thing.
Danielle Zetzer: That that word is interesting, different, because I think there's a real trend. Now, like any kind of business coach, you go to.
Eloise Tomkins: Hmm.
Danielle Zetzer: In course you do. It's all about okay. Well, you've got to set yourself apart as different.
Eloise Tomkins: Yeah.
Danielle Zetzer: And a lot of people say they're different.
Danielle Zetzer: And then I asked them, Why, how are you different?
Danielle Zetzer: And they can't actually articulate it.
Eloise Tomkins: Alright!
Danielle Zetzer: And so I think if you're trying to be different for the sake of being different.
Eloise Tomkins: Hmm.
Danielle Zetzer: Don't bother.
Danielle Zetzer: You know, work out what drives you.
Danielle Zetzer: and then it'll come naturally to you, right? Because you've read the books about the different zones. You know we've got the zone of excellence, of the zone of genius.
Eloise Tomkins: Hmm.
Danielle Zetzer: Sometimes we're stuck in the zone of excellence. We do a job really. Well, that's all we've ever known to do, and so we may as well keep doing it, and the zone of genius is right there.
Danielle Zetzer: and I think the key to getting to that is actually just pursuing what drives you.
Danielle Zetzer: And I think the success comes from that. And then it's so easy to articulate how you're different.
Danielle Zetzer: It just comes so naturally.
Eloise Tomkins: You've got so much wisdom, Dani, like you're you have. I don't know. Like, when we talk outside of the podcast. And just in general like. There's always nuggets when we talk, you know, because
Eloise Tomkins: you're right, and I'm like as you were speaking, I'm like, what's my difference? What's my
Eloise Tomkins: you know. The word that comes to mind is the unique selling point. And
Eloise Tomkins: yeah, got me thinking, I'm like, Huh, what is it for me? And I'm like, you know what it's the body
Eloise Tomkins: it's being able to connect in with our relationship with money and through our body.
Eloise Tomkins: Because as women, we're so disconnected from that. And what I ultimately want is to help women
Eloise Tomkins: bring the body into the picture because we're so head heavy and we're so rational and logic driven, and we'll go and do the next shiny implementation of a business strategy or read the book. But we don't actually lean into that discomfort we don't actually feel, and I know for me. That was when I leant into my feelings and kind of
Eloise Tomkins: understood how to discern my feelings, and how to make sense of what was going on in my inner world.
Eloise Tomkins: That was where the magic happened. For my business, for my life, for my sexuality, for my friendships, the
Eloise Tomkins: my whole life.
Eloise Tomkins: and
Eloise Tomkins: that's what I want for other women.
Eloise Tomkins: And I truly believe that if we can connect in with ourselves
Eloise Tomkins: and really get to know ourselves, not from this perspective of what other people want from me. But what do I want like for you? For example, I want a business where I make an impact. And sure money is great, and I want to drive a nice car and have a successful business, and I don't want to do it in the way that you know I'm going to send clients to court, even though that's going to be the faster way for me to get to.
Danielle Zetzer: No.
Eloise Tomkins: Millions. I want to do it my way
Eloise Tomkins: so, and you.
Danielle Zetzer: Think it started with.
Danielle Zetzer: I wanted to be able to get the the toilet fixed if I needed to.
Danielle Zetzer: Yeah, I wanted to be able to get my kids. You know the best
Danielle Zetzer: cream or medicine without worrying about the money. It started with small things right. And I think you know what sets you apart absolutely is okay. Well, what are the feelings
Danielle Zetzer: that are stopping you from getting there? Not about. I can teach you how to have an abundance mindset, and get the Ferrari and get the shiny house right. You're not about that.
Danielle Zetzer: and it's always come back to feelings with me. Yesterday
Danielle Zetzer: I had like this like anger inside of me yesterday afternoon.
Danielle Zetzer: and I think we're always taught.
Danielle Zetzer: you know, to just shut that down
Danielle Zetzer: instead. I've taught myself.
Danielle Zetzer: Let's explore this, and I managed to take Ā min aside for myself as a single mom with of kids.
Eloise Tomkins: Hmm.
Danielle Zetzer: And I listened to a meditation about anger.
Danielle Zetzer: and I started to realize, oh, it's not anger.
Danielle Zetzer: it's overwhelming.
Danielle Zetzer: right? And then I'm getting more and more irritable. I'm overwhelmed. What am I overwhelmed about? And I start chasing it, and I often journal right while in these thoughts, to work where the feelings coming from. And I worked out. Okay, I'm really overwhelmed with, you know, the admin around my media commitments.
Danielle Zetzer: Morning I reached out to someone that I know is an expert in this area, and said, Do you think you could help me.
Danielle Zetzer: And now I feel great. If I had just said, Oh, I'm an angry bitch today must be the perimenopause. I'll take some estrogen tonight.
Danielle Zetzer: If I if I had shamed myself like that, and not.
Eloise Tomkins: Yeah.
Danielle Zetzer: Allude the feeling. I'd still be feeling the same way today.
Danielle Zetzer: So, yeah.
Eloise Tomkins: Yeah. Sorry. Not.
Danielle Zetzer: Yeah.
Eloise Tomkins: I love that, and I love. I don't know. You're speaking my language, Dani, and you know, like it's powerful in journaling, you know, like. That's why in I've got the millionaire Mindset Academy which helps women shift those emotions around their relationship with money. And one of the things that we do in. There is money diaries, which is a journal, prompt. But it's not just a journal prompt. It helps you to unpack. Why
Eloise Tomkins: unpack those subconscious like kind of what you did with the anger. Well, what is it? What's actually going on? Why am I feeling this way? What's actually happening for me? Why am I thinking this way and being able to
Eloise Tomkins: unpack
Eloise Tomkins: that kind of what we're consciously aware of? Because what I'm hearing with you there is. There was that sense of well, I'm consciously aware that I'm angry. I'm noticing something, and that's only the % tip of the iceberg. And when you kind of dig deeper. It's like, well, actually, there's other stuff going on that we're not aware of until we slow it down. And that's another thing that I love doing. And
Eloise Tomkins: I have a lot of fun slowing things down actually, with people.
Eloise Tomkins: because they're like, Oh, my gosh! I've never thought about it in this way before. I'm like we we don't, because we don't often take this time to slow ourselves down and to take that Ā min as a single mom working in this. Your own business, you know, doing all of these media commitments. We don't take that Ā min for ourselves. But, gosh! When we do look at the outcome that you can have from that I
Eloise Tomkins: love that. And I guess on that note, Dani, like
Eloise Tomkins: thinking about some of the things that we have spoken about today like there's so many gems
Eloise Tomkins: that I'm hearing in there, and I'm wondering if you have any tips, or and I know you've kind of intimate, interweave them throughout, but any parting words of wisdom.
Danielle Zetzer: Well, specifically, when it comes to money, which is what we're talking about today.
Danielle Zetzer: I think.
Danielle Zetzer: the biggest thing that's led me to the success you know that I have at the moment
Danielle Zetzer: is letting go of good
Danielle Zetzer: for the potential of great.
Eloise Tomkins: Hmm.
Danielle Zetzer: That's the same as the zone of excellence versus the zone of genius.
Danielle Zetzer: And because when we start in any business, we really want to hold on to every client we want to say yes to every client we're scared. Next client is going to come from.
Danielle Zetzer: and it's only when you really let go of, you know
Danielle Zetzer: something that's okay.
Danielle Zetzer: that she can really welcome in something great.
Danielle Zetzer: And again, the only thing that's stopping us there is fear. So I say, try it.
Danielle Zetzer: Try saying no to the client that wants your service, that you know it's just not right. You've just got this feeling like. It's so difficult with the onboarding process that you just know the next few months is gonna be a nightmare.
Danielle Zetzer: Try saying no.
Eloise Tomkins: Hmm.
Danielle Zetzer: I mean, I almost guarantee. In the next week or you'll get a much better client that's much more appropriate. You know what I mean, like, it's crazy. And so like a little thing that, too, is.
Danielle Zetzer: if I feel like Oh, you know, we need some new work.
Danielle Zetzer: I will archive.
Danielle Zetzer: You know matters that you know where we haven't heard from. The client in a little bit.
Eloise Tomkins: And.
Danielle Zetzer: It's clearing that energy and letting go of some
Danielle Zetzer: cool.
Eloise Tomkins: Love that I love clearing the energy absolutely so funny. You say that because my coach will say that to me. She's like Ellie, you know, how's your energy at the moment I'm like.
Eloise Tomkins: And then I have a little huff because she's right. And I'm like, Oh, fine. Yes, okay, thank you for the reminder. Have my little huff. And I'm like, Okay, yep, all right. I hear what you're saying, because it's true. And it's interest like it's so interesting, how we attract in
Eloise Tomkins: what we're putting out and.
Danielle Zetzer: It's a mirror. Everything's a mirror.
Eloise Tomkins: Is, and it's hard sometimes, and I think this can be really tricky is to
Eloise Tomkins: reflect out or be that mirror out, or I don't know what the word is that I'm looking for and and to attract in when we're struggling with that internally ourselves, for example, like if you are starting your business, and it's new, and you like, because I think back to when I st started my business, and I definitely had that
Eloise Tomkins: I should have said, no client, and I look back, and I'm like, Oh, my God! That was just
Eloise Tomkins: oh, a lot! And
Eloise Tomkins: but then I think back, why did I take that client? Well, because
Eloise Tomkins: new business. I I needed that validation in a way, you know, like, okay, I have a business. I have a client who and it can be tricky
Eloise Tomkins: to say no when the you do operate from
Eloise Tomkins: Well, if I say
Eloise Tomkins: like, it's.
Danielle Zetzer: You've just got to take responsibility, that you knew this wasn't the right client for you, and you took it.
Eloise Tomkins: Yeah.
Danielle Zetzer: It's in validation. That's okay.
Danielle Zetzer: But why don't you deserve the great client?
Danielle Zetzer: And is there someone out there that can service the great client better than you. Wouldn't they be better for having you?
Danielle Zetzer: So it's like, it's a worthiness piece, right? And so.
Eloise Tomkins: for them.
Danielle Zetzer: Thing is.
Danielle Zetzer: try it once
Danielle Zetzer: and see where it leads. In town one client
Danielle Zetzer: turn down one opportunity
Danielle Zetzer: and and just see see if something better comes along as a result of letting that go.
Eloise Tomkins: Love that. And and I just wanna add to that like, if you do, do that, send send either Dani or IA DM.
Eloise Tomkins: In in. I don't know. Dani. Dani's Dms. Always open, does she always reply, No, but that's a different story.
Danielle Zetzer: Don't worry.
Eloise Tomkins: I sent
Eloise Tomkins: like Dani. Hello, but send us a DM. Because we would love to hear. I would love to hear, you know, like. If you do have a go at saying No, let us know, and we'll cheer you on. We'll be. And I did that with Dani. Actually, you know I did that with you earlier this year, where, Dani, I saw Dani.
Danielle Zetzer: Okay.
Eloise Tomkins: And so I can't remember what you were talking about now, but maybe.
Danielle Zetzer: I, yeah.
Eloise Tomkins: Yeah. And I was like, Oh, I need to let go of a friend. And and I mean it was in part what you said in part, the universe in part, just a lot of other science that I needed to let go. And then I did. And I messaged Dani because I was like, oh, I just need to be witnessed in that experience. So if you do say no to a client that
Eloise Tomkins: doesn't align, and you want to be witnessed in that send us a DM. Would love to hear that experience. Give us some context that you've listened to the podcast though because I will forget Adhd Brain over here. Just give us a little bit of context.
Eloise Tomkins: But let us know, because I think just being witness sometimes can also be really really valuable. But, Dani, oh, my goodness! I feel like I could just keep talking to you. Because there's so many wisdoms and learnings that you articulate so well for people, and I'm sure that there's so many nuggets that
Eloise Tomkins: women will have walked away from this episode gleaning and just hearing your story of and relating to childhood and kind of having coming from nothing in a sense to building this really successful figure plus business is inspirational for many, and also not holding on to and attaching yourself. Worth to. Money is really cool as well, and I just
Eloise Tomkins: or I guess, want to invite. If anybody is looking for a lawyer or is looking to pass details of a separation lawyer on, or family divorce lawyer on, where can they find you?
Danielle Zetzer: Oh, we're just Google, respect legal.
Danielle Zetzer: We're pretty hard to miss, but we can we can service. Luckily, we have a national legal system. So we can see anyone.
Eloise Tomkins: Amazing. I'll pop your details in the show notes for people as well. But thank you so much, Dani, for joining us on the show and for everyone else. Thank you so much for tuning in and sharing your time with us today. Can't wait to chat with you all again next week's keep an eye out for future episodes. And yeah, check out the show notes for all of the links and resources that we were talking about today.
